Watch and Learn - Mum of murdered Libby Squire on what needs to be done to protect women and girls

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Well, we've got more now on our top

Well we've got more now on our top

story. Uh, the government has promised

story Uh the government has promised

to harm violence against women and girls

uh within the decade, and they're trying

uh within the decade and they're trying

to change attitudes among boys and young

men at the beginning of their strategy,

men at the beginning of their strategy

the center of their strategy. Well,

the center of their strategy Well

joining us now is Lisa Squire, uh, whose

joining us now is Lisa Squire uh whose

daughter Libby was raped and murdered.

daughter Libby was raped and murdered

She was aged 21 and that was in 2019.

She was aged 21 and that was in 2019

Um, thank you so much for being on the

Um thank you so much for being on the

program. I I remember Libby very very

program I I remember Libby very very

clearly I should say is the first thing

I want to say. Um and what happened to

I want to say Um and what happened to

her was unbearable. Um you know she was

her was unbearable Um you know she was

a student at Woll University. She was

a student at Woll University She was

targeted after a night out. I remember

targeted after a night out I remember

very clearly you know that kind of

weight.

weight

>> It must have been I can't imagine what

it must have been like for you.

it must have been like for you

>> Yes. 48 days of not knowing where she

>> Yes 48 days of not knowing where she

was um was absolutely horrendous.

was um was absolutely horrendous

>> Um and thank you for coming on and

talking about it a little bit as well.

talking about it a little bit as well

I'm sure it is difficult for you even

though you also I'm sure want to talk

about Libby.

about Libby

>> Yes.

>> Yes

>> As well. Um firstly um what do you make

>> As well Um firstly um what do you make

about the strategy against violence

against women and girls? How how

against women and girls How how

important do you think it is?

important do you think it is

>> I think it's it's really taking some

positive steps. I mean obviously there's

positive steps I mean obviously there's

a lot to do there's and and I've been

saying this for the last you know five

or six years. We've got loads to do but

or six years We've got loads to do but

I think the government are moving in the

right direction because I mean there's

been lots of talk and not very much

action. So, I'm I'm really I'm really

action So I'm I'm really I'm really

encouraged by this morning's

announcements.

announcements

>> Is there anything in particular that

you're kind of pleased about?

you're kind of pleased about

>> Yes, I I like the whole um I like the

>> Yes I I like the whole um I like the

element of of teaching in schools, of

element of of teaching in schools of

educating in schools. I mean, it

educating in schools I mean it

shouldn't be down to school teachers,

shouldn't be down to school teachers

you know, it it should be starting from

you know it it should be starting from

the home when the children are, you

the home when the children are you

know, small enough to understand, but

know small enough to understand but

it's obviously not happening. So, school

it's obviously not happening So school

is the next place. And actually in

is the next place And actually in

reality, school teachers spend more time

reality school teachers spend more time

with the children than than we do or

with young people than their parents do

in reality. Um so yeah, I'm really

in reality Um so yeah I'm really

encouraged about that. But I think

encouraged about that But I think

whether the funding will be enough, I

whether the funding will be enough I

think they'll need there probably will

need to be an uplift in funding. But but

need to be an uplift in funding But but

it's the idea is there and the promise

is there. The man who killed Libby was a

is there The man who killed Libby was a

stranger to her. Yes.

stranger to her Yes

>> But he committed a lot of offenses

before. This is what really sort of

before This is what really sort of

strikes me about this, you know, spying

strikes me about this you know spying

on women through windows, masturbating

on women through windows masturbating

in the street, breaking into people's

in the street breaking into people's

homes to steal intimate items. Do you

homes to steal intimate items Do you

think we need to take these red flags a

lot more seriously?

lot more seriously

>> Absolutely. And that's been my my

>> Absolutely And that's been my my

biggest part of the thing I the work

I've been doing is I go into schools, I

I've been doing is I go into schools I

go into police forces. I mean, I I'll go

go into police forces I mean I I'll go

anywhere that anybody will have me and I

talk about non-cont sexual offenses. It

talk about non-cont sexual offenses It

is not normal behavior for a man to be

doing the things that you've described.

doing the things that you've described

They are red flag offenses. They are

They are red flag offenses They are

gateway offenses. And and I think if we

gateway offenses And and I think if we

can focus a bit more on those, then we

can focus a bit more on those then we

it seems logical to me that if we can

stop some of those, we'll stop some

stop some of those we'll stop some

rapes and andor murders.

rapes and andor murders

>> And and is it something that needs to

start or or this is more something

that's sensibly paired with all of this

with young boys in the classroom as as

the government's been talking about

today?

today

>> I think it needs to be paired together.

>> I think it needs to be paired together

Um, but I also think we need to be

Um but I also think we need to be

talking to our young women and young

girls and saying or and and women and

girls and saying to them, if you are a

girls and saying to them if you are a

victim of a non-cont offense, you

victim of a non-cont offense you

absolutely have to report it because,

absolutely have to report it because

you know, historically and even I think

you know historically and even I think

still today, women are conditioned to

still today women are conditioned to

accept it. We just think, oh, it's just

accept it We just think oh it's just

that strange man, you know, but it's not

that strange man you know but it's not

okay. And if the police don't know

okay And if the police don't know

anything about it, they can't do

anything about it they can't do

anything about it. So I think it's about

anything about it So I think it's about

bringing it all together, educating our

bringing it all together educating our

young people and saying that this

behavior is not normal, this behavior is

behavior is not normal this behavior is

not normal. You must, you know, and and

not normal You must you know and and

just giving them the information because

I do believe that young people are, you

I do believe that young people are you

know, are the are the way forwards.

know are the are the way forwards

>> It's true about not reporting. I mean,

>> It's true about not reporting I mean

I've been flashed a couple of times and

it didn't even cross my mind to report

it. But I remember, am I right in saying

it But I remember am I right in saying

that Libby happened to Libby?

that Libby happened to Libby

>> Yes. So in the November before she died,

>> Yes So in the November before she died

she rang me and she said, "Oh, mom, I

she rang me and she said Oh mom I

was walking home and a man flashed at me

and she was absolutely livid. She was so

and she was absolutely livid She was so

angry and I did. I talked her down. I

angry and I did I talked her down I

said, "Do you need me to come and get

said Do you need me to come and get

you? Do you want to come home?" She

you Do you want to come home She

said, "Mom, I'm fine. I'm absolutely

said Mom I'm fine I'm absolutely

fine. I'm just so angry, but I didn't

fine I'm just so angry but I didn't

tell her to report it because I didn't

know. I didn't know then. I mean, it's

know I didn't know then I mean it's

happened to me. It's happened to all of

happened to me It's happened to all of

my girlfriends and I just

>> I didn't know. I know better now."

>> I didn't know I know better now

>> We're looking at pictures of Libby.

>> We're looking at pictures of Libby

>> Oh, bless her.

>> Oh bless her

>> And there's the two of you as well.

>> And there's the two of you as well

I was you read this incredible victim

impact statement to court that if if

it's okay I just want to read a little

bit of you said you know in any times of

trouble. She wanted me her mom.

trouble She wanted me her mom

>> She knew I would do anything in my power

to help her and knowing I was not there

when she needed me will haunt me for the

rest of my life. So first of all you

rest of my life So first of all you

sound like an amazing mom like an

amazing amazing mom to Libby and your

other children as well.

other children as well

>> Is there anything you want to share

about Libby? like any memories you have

about Libby like any memories you have

of her or

>> she was she was so funny. Um I mean she

>> she was she was so funny Um I mean she

didn't even know how funny she was. Um

didn't even know how funny she was Um

she was an amazing big sister. She

she was an amazing big sister She

absolutely idolized her three siblings

and was the best daughter. I mean all of

and was the best daughter I mean all of

my kids are wonderful but of course as

I've said to you earlier my other three

children will say of course Libbyy's the

best. Um but yeah her and I were

best Um but yeah her and I were

incredibly close. I mean I'm close with

incredibly close I mean I'm close with

all my children but Libby and I maybe

it's because my she was my firstborn. We

it's because my she was my firstborn We

were incredibly close and um there was

nothing she didn't tell me. There was

nothing she didn't tell me There was

nothing, you know, she was Yeah. She was

nothing you know she was Yeah She was

just incredible. And the loss is it's is

just incredible And the loss is it's is

indescribable, you know, but we we've

indescribable you know but we we've

got to a stage in the family now where

we're talking about how she lived, not

we're talking about how she lived not

how she died. So, she moves forwards

how she died So she moves forwards

with us and she's always around us.

with us and she's always around us

>> Well, I mean, that's an amazing

>> Well I mean that's an amazing

perspective to have and you know, your

perspective to have and you know your

bravery shines through just by being

here today, but but also by that answer.

here today but but also by that answer

I wanted to ask just quickly about a

different topic if I could um which is

the the early release scheme that's

taking place at the moment. Um obviously

taking place at the moment Um obviously

>> Libbyy's uh killer is is uh doesn't fall

under this um uh being in jail for

murder and rape, but

murder and rape but

>> but it does happen with people of of

some sexual offenses. Um clearly the

some sexual offenses Um clearly the

government inherited an extraordinary

backlog and a prison system under huge

pressure. But h how does it make you

pressure But h how does it make you

feel when you do see some of these early

releases that take place? I just I it it

releases that take place I just I it it

makes me angry and it makes me really

sad for the family for the victim and

the victim's families. Um I have a a

the victim's families Um I have a a

massive issue with with with um the

justice system myself. You know, I think

justice system myself You know I think

we need to have a complete reform of it.

we need to have a complete reform of it

Um there are people in prisons that

don't need to be in prisons. They can be

don't need to be in prisons They can be

punished in other ways, but people who,

punished in other ways but people who

you know, commit sexual offenses, who,

you know commit sexual offenses who

you know, who hurt people that didn't

you know who hurt people that didn't

ought to be on the streets. So releasing

ought to be on the streets So releasing

somebody when they've had a sentence,

somebody when they've had a sentence

and the sentences aren't long enough. I

and the sentences aren't long enough I

mean, in our case, he got life with a

mean in our case he got life with a

minimum of 27 years. He was 24 when he

minimum of 27 years He was 24 when he

killed Libby. He'll be in his early 50s

killed Libby He'll be in his early 50s

when he gets out. That's not a sentence.

when he gets out That's not a sentence

The life sentence is what myself and my

husband and then my children have and

then their children, you know, we have

then their children you know we have

the life sentence. So, I think there

the life sentence So I think there

needs to be a whole new look at at um at

sentencing. I mean, I would have

sentencing I mean I would have

everybody who takes a life in prison for

the rest of theirs. And if you commit an

the rest of theirs And if you commit an

offense where you hurt somebody or you

know a sexual offense or you or anything

like that, you need to be in prison for

like that you need to be in prison for

a very long time. Not a 20 year

a very long time Not a 20 year

sentence, but you'll only serve 10 or

sentence but you'll only serve 10 or

you may only serve eight now. You know,

you may only serve eight now You know

it's it's not okay.

it's it's not okay

>> Clearly, there's a lot that the

>> Clearly there's a lot that the

government is announcing this week,

government is announcing this week

today, and we've talked about that and

today and we've talked about that and

and the way that you you embrace that.

and the way that you you embrace that

Stepping aside from those specifics,

Stepping aside from those specifics

though, is there a sense we're actually

though is there a sense we're actually

getting softer? uh maybe because of

getting softer uh maybe because of

unbelievable pressures whether it's the

prison system or or the judiciary but do

you feel like the general direction of

travel is is in the right direction or

not? I I think we are getting softer on

not I I think we are getting softer on

sentencing and I think we need to pull

it right back in and go hard, you know,

it right back in and go hard you know

because if people think, well, I'm only

because if people think well I'm only

if I'm if people are compelled to do

these things and know they're only going

to get 18 months inside, it's no

to get 18 months inside it's no

deterrent, you know, we need a robust

deterrent you know we need a robust

deterrent and that to me is, you know, a

deterrent and that to me is you know a

long time in prison and al and alongside

that, you know, treatment services,

that you know treatment services

help, you know, rehabilitation services,

help you know rehabilitation services

which I don't think happen in inside

now. Um, it's going to be Libbyy's

now Um it's going to be Libbyy's

birthday soon.

birthday soon

>> It is. Yeah.

>> It is Yeah

>> New Year's Day.

>> New Year's Day

>> New Year's Day. Yes.

>> New Year's Day Yes

>> How are you going to be marking that?

>> How are you going to be marking that

>> Um, well, in the year's gone by, we've

>> Um well in the year's gone by we've

gone up to Libbyy's bench up on the hill

and we've had sort of friends and family

join us there. Um, I'm not too sure I

join us there Um I'm not too sure I

want to do that this year. I found this

want to do that this year I found this

year really difficult. It was nearly

year really difficult It was nearly

seven years and I've I found this year

really difficult. So, I'm kind of

really difficult So I'm kind of

thinking I'm might put a little post out

to her friends and ask them to send me a

message with a memory or a picture of

her just so I can have a bit more of

Libby back in my life. But we'll just

Libby back in my life But we'll just

have a Libby day and we'll probably

watch her favorite movie and sadly we'll

have to drink Lambrini because that's

what she liked. Um I'm I'm hoping by 28

what she liked Um I'm I'm hoping by 28

she'd have moved over to sort of at

least Prosecco by now. Um yeah and uh and

least Prosecco by now Um yeah and uh and

we'll have to eat Red Velvet Cake

because that was her favorite cake as

well.

well

>> What's her favorite movie?

>> What's her favorite movie

>> Uh Nightmare Before Christmas.

>> Uh Nightmare Before Christmas

>> Oh, fantastic.

>> Oh fantastic

>> Yes, that was her favorite. So, we'll

>> Yes that was her favorite So we'll

we'll just go through the list of other

films she liked and and anything that

the the other the other three want to

do, you know, Libby related, we'll do

do you know Libby related we'll do

for the day.

for the day

>> Thank you so much.

>> Thank you so much

>> Thank you. Thank you for having me.

>> Thank you Thank you for having me

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