Watch and Learn - 'He's being held in a death cell': Imran Khan's sons tell Yalda Hakim of fears for ex-PM's life

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Let's focus now on two men locked in a

battle of wills that could define the

future of Pakistan. One a popular leader

future of Pakistan One a popular leader

kept in isolation for two years. The

kept in isolation for two years The

other the most powerful figure in

Pakistan. Former Prime Minister Imran

Pakistan Former Prime Minister Imran

Khan was jailed for corruption and

leaking state secrets, but he still

leaking state secrets but he still

looms large on the political scene. He's

looms large on the political scene He's

the latest in a string of leaders locked

up over the past 50 years. And he's been

up over the past 50 years And he's been

fiercely critical of this man, Aimuner,

fiercely critical of this man Aimuner

a powerful military chief favored by

Donald Trump, who's become even more

Donald Trump who's become even more

powerful after his country's parliament

voted to give him new powers and legal

immunity. Now, Imran Khan's two sons,

immunity Now Imran Khan's two sons

Sullean and Kasim, who are based in

Sullean and Kasim who are based in

London, are renewing their campaign to

London are renewing their campaign to

free him. They describe what they call

free him They describe what they call

his death cell. what it felt like to see

his death cell what it felt like to see

rumors of his death online. Why they

rumors of his death online Why they

believe he will never strike a deal in

exchange for his freedom and they shared

some of their fondest memories of their

father. Have a listen to my exclusive

father Have a listen to my exclusive

interview.

interview

>> Yeah. So that was that's from a charity

>> Yeah So that was that's from a charity

match um where me and my father actually

got to to bat together in a partnership

and uh yeah that's we're about to fist

bump there in the second picture I think

after I just hit. It is a really good

after I just hit It is a really good

shot.

shot

>> He Well, I think he was quite impressed

>> He Well I think he was quite impressed

that that day, but um No, he was he was

that that day but um No he was he was

he was he wasn't pushy at all with us.

he was he wasn't pushy at all with us

>> I think you hit hit a four there about 8

years old and that

>> Oh, wow.

>> Oh wow

>> a late cut.

>> a late cut

>> But no, he Yeah, that was a he talked

>> But no he Yeah that was a he talked

about that that partnership a lot

growing up. Yeah, there's a great

growing up Yeah there's a great

scorecard where you have both of their

names, es

names es

me. I think I got out on a duck.

me I think I got out on a duck

>> Oh, no.

>> Oh no

>> Never a great bat. I I I want to ask a

>> Never a great bat I I I want to ask a

little bit more about his conditions um

in prison. You you spoke a little bit

in prison You you spoke a little bit

about what it's like inside, but what do

about what it's like inside but what do

you know about how he's coping in there?

you know about how he's coping in there

You know, solitary confinement. If you

You know solitary confinement If you

can describe to us what that's like

inside there and how he's doing, I mean,

inside there and how he's doing I mean

he's a 73y old man as well.

he's a 73y old man as well

>> The conditions are awful. They're like

>> The conditions are awful They're like

they're not bad. They're awful. It's,

they're not bad They're awful It's

you know, they

you know they

>> Yeah, it's been described as a death

>> Yeah it's been described as a death

cell. the the cell that he's in because

cell the the cell that he's in because

I think uh inmates who have been put on

death row have have been put in these

small these small cells before with

barely any light. Sometimes the

barely any light Sometimes the

electricity has been cut off. Um you

electricity has been cut off Um you

yeah dirty water as Carson was saying

and yeah just just uh completely

substandard conditions that don't meet

international law for any sort of

prisoner. So, what went through your

prisoner So what went through your

minds when you saw the images of him

that were circulating on social media

that perhaps he'd died or he'd been

killed? There were all sorts of rumors

killed There were all sorts of rumors

swirling because of course there there

was no family contact even though every

Tuesday family members based on the

court are supposed to see him and make

contact with him and they hadn't for

several weeks.

several weeks

>> Yeah. Incredibly stressful obviously.

>> Yeah Incredibly stressful obviously

Yeah. I I I went straight on to kind of

Yeah I I I went straight on to kind of

my family group chat cuz that's that's

the only contact reliable source that we

have on the ground in Pakistan.

have on the ground in Pakistan

>> I remember it's just you know you go on

Twitter and suddenly you see just you

know Iran Khan dead his body being

transferred to this. It's like it's

transferred to this It's like it's

obviously very jarring and obviously

pulls you out of whatever you're trying

to do in your normal life. Um especially

to do in your normal life Um especially

how helpless we are over here not able

to do much at all. Um so it's it's not

to do much at all Um so it's it's not

ideal. And what did your aunt say um

ideal And what did your aunt say um

about seeing him after that period when

that started to generate a lot of

headlines and the international media

got involved, the international

got involved the international

community got involved, suddenly she was

community got involved suddenly she was

allowed to see him again. What did she

allowed to see him again What did she

say about how he was?

say about how he was

>> She reassured us that he was well. He um

>> She reassured us that he was well He um

and yeah, he was he was he seemed

and yeah he was he was he seemed

healthy and and well, but he was furious

healthy and and well but he was furious

about the the conditions he'd been kept

in. and he he put out he dictated a

in and he he put out he dictated a

tweet um I think through her um or maybe

yeah potentially through her and I think

that tweet has partly led to this this

reaction from from the establishment to

to completely try and isolate him. Now

to completely try and isolate him Now

>> I I I also wonder you talked about the

fact that you know you guys have been

warned not to come even though the

defense minister said you're welcome to

come and you can visit him. Have you

come and you can visit him Have you

guys tried have you tried to engage with

the Pakistani government to allow you to

go and see your father?

go and see your father

>> Yeah, we're we're we're um now planning

>> Yeah we're we're we're um now planning

because they said it openly. So unless

because they said it openly So unless

they um go against their word again um

then we should be hopefully going in

January. We we applied for our visas but

January We we applied for our visas but

um we were uh well I mean it it hasn't

come through yet. We're expecting it to

come through yet We're expecting it to

come through. Um so we're planning a

come through Um so we're planning a

trip in January. And if you do see him,

trip in January And if you do see him

what what are you likely to say? I mean,

what what are you likely to say I mean

do you think that you would say, "Look,

do you think that you would say Look

you've you've spent this time in prison.

you've you've spent this time in prison

You've done your time, you know, perhaps

You've done your time you know perhaps

look at cutting a deal."

look at cutting a deal

>> What you have to understand is it's his

life. It's literally his passion and his

life It's literally his passion and his

goal. He he calls it his life purpose is

goal He he calls it his life purpose is

to um you know, help Pakistan rid it of

to um you know help Pakistan rid it of

corruption. And so if he just took a

corruption And so if he just took a

deal and came over to us and lived in

England, I know there would be this kind

England I know there would be this kind

of um this burning desire and this

aching uh that would that he's you know

has left his his country for dead. Um

has left his his country for dead Um

and he would be depressed to be honest.

and he would be depressed to be honest

I know he would. This is his goal and we

I know he would This is his goal and we

you as much as we'd love to have our

father watching all of our kind of

cricket matches or football matches over

here, he has a purpose which is um far

here he has a purpose which is um far

greater. So, um, you can only respect

greater So um you can only respect

it.

>> What else would you would you say to

him? I mean, if you could send him a

him I mean if you could send him a

message now through this, what would you

message now through this what would you

say to him?

say to him

>> It's hard not to speak just to get

desperate. I I want to know how we can

desperate I I want to know how we can

um how we can get him out, how we can

um how we can get him out how we can

help because the main point is we feel

so helpless at this point. I mean,

so helpless at this point I mean

there's so much to catch up on. What

there's so much to catch up on What

we've been doing in the past 6 months,

we've been doing in the past 6 months

how is life uh with us? and he refuses

how is life uh with us and he refuses

always to talk about his conditions.

always to talk about his conditions

He's like, "Oh, you know, don't worry

He's like Oh you know don't worry

about me. How's everything? I he wants

about me How's everything I he wants

to just kind of take in absorb as much

about what we're doing as possible." So,

about what we're doing as possible So

he I guess yeah, he has something to

he I guess yeah he has something to

think about when he's in there. Doesn't

think about when he's in there Doesn't

want to dwell on, you know, his

want to dwell on you know his

situation. One of the first things you

situation One of the first things you

you asked earlier kind of what we'd

speak to him about. One of the first

speak to him about One of the first

things, if it's not the first question,

things if it's not the first question

it's the second question was always how

is your grandmother? how who whose house

is your grandmother how who whose house

it is here who he loved, you know,

it is here who he loved you know

tweeted that he loved her like a mother.

tweeted that he loved her like a mother

Um I we haven't spoken to him since she

died only a couple of months ago and I

would love to speak to him about that

that you know it's it's he he called her

his mother after his own mother had

passed and their relationship was so

close. Um so I'd love to speak to him

close Um so I'd love to speak to him

about that.

about that

>> Was he critical of how you guys played

cricket?

cricket

>> He was actually quite polite. Yeah.

>> He was actually quite polite Yeah

Yeah. Yeah. He really wasn't.

Yeah Yeah He really wasn't

No, he he wasn't at all actually. No, he

No he he wasn't at all actually No he

was he he said, you know, you either

was he he said you know you either

have the kind of passion to be

professional and then he would push us

or if we didn't want to be, then play it

or if we didn't want to be then play it

for fun and enjoyment. And I think he

for fun and enjoyment And I think he

realized it was probably the latter. Um,

realized it was probably the latter Um

and we're now kind of we've gone from

maybe back then we we, you know, we did

maybe back then we we you know we did

love it, but not to the degree that we

love it but not to the degree that we

would play it professionally. Now we're

would play it professionally Now we're

both kind of obsessed.

both kind of obsessed

>> You talked about feeling helpless. I

>> You talked about feeling helpless I

mean, what do you want the international

mean what do you want the international

community to do now? What would you like

community to do now What would you like

to tell global leaders, people like

to tell global leaders people like

Donald Trump, for example? You were both

Donald Trump for example You were both

in the US uh recently. Um, and we've

in the US uh recently Um and we've

seen the evolving relationship between

Pakistan and the Trump administration.

Pakistan and the Trump administration

What would you want to say?

What would you want to say

I think at minimum just to to make sure

that um the the standards of

international human rights are being

upheld and right now they're clearly

being violated. Um and democracy in

being violated Um and democracy in

Pakistan is to see how it's being how

it's deteriorating.

it's deteriorating

Um and yeah and essentially we just want

to ensure that uh our father the basic

human rights for our father are being

respected and I implement the court

orders you know respect the court orders

um and respect the rule of law really

and allow him to see his personal

position that's massive obviously allow

you know basic human rights it's those

three things

>> and and also if possible independent

monitoring of of his conditions because

we we have no idea what it's like until

someone goes to see him and and speak to

speaks to him. So

speaks to him So

>> I spoke to um a representative of the

Pakistani government who said to me, you

Pakistani government who said to me you

know, we don't have control over what um

know we don't have control over what um

the the jail does and the jail staff and

the treatment and also brought up um the

200 plus cases of corruption against him

and various other cases. How do you

and various other cases How do you

react when you when you hear that from

the Pakistani government?

the Pakistani government

I mean that is they're all crooks. They

I mean that is they're all crooks They

are the lowest of the low. They'll do

are the lowest of the low They'll do

whatever it takes, whether it's torture,

whatever it takes whether it's torture

whether it's disrespecting democracy

and, you know, rigging an election. Um

and you know rigging an election Um

they'll take any sort of deal. They'll,

they'll take any sort of deal They'll

and as you see with, you know, with

and as you see with you know with

Donald Trump, you know, they're they

Donald Trump you know they're they

elected him as uh for the Nobel Peace

Prize. It's they'll do whatever it takes

Prize It's they'll do whatever it takes

um to to stay in power for wealth and

for control. Um

for control Um

it it's the current government and the

army are

they're laughable and it's very very

clear to see how corrupt they are if you

do do the slightest digging. So um

do do the slightest digging So um

there's not much you can say other than

they're just it's a crooked system run

by crooked people.

by crooked people

>> Yeah. It's not even digging really. It's

>> Yeah It's not even digging really It's

the international it's I think the

international media it's been pretty

widely reported that the previous

elections um in February 2024 were

rigged um that their mandate it's not

you know PTI's mandate was essentially

stolen um everyone knows who the the

most um popular leader in the country is

>> and the the UN Amnesty International

have all called it an arbitrary um

detainment. I want to ask a little bit

detainment I want to ask a little bit

more about the fact that uh the army

chief alsir you know they they changed

the constitution he's given himself um

lifetime uh amnesty and um you know um

uh immunity I I just wonder Iran Khan if

he becomes aware of all of these changes

and he may be aware it's hard to know um

what he would be thinking about all of

these shifts and changes that he's that

you know we're seeing now in Pakistani

politics

>> I I don't think he'd be surprised at all

because it's I think it's quite clear

that it was heading towards basically

what it is now, which is a military

what it is now which is a military

dictatorship

um in in everything but name. So, I

um in in everything but name So I

don't think he I think he probably knows

about this already. And the reason part

about this already And the reason part

of the reason he's being silenced and um

isolated is because they know that he's

inevitably not going to stand for this.

inevitably not going to stand for this

>> Do you think he'll ever get out

>> right now? the conditions are getting

>> right now the conditions are getting

worse. They're the the people in power

worse They're the the people in power

are becoming more entrenched as as you

say. So, um it's very hard to see a way

say So um it's very hard to see a way

out and a lot of the people we speak to,

out and a lot of the people we speak to

the kind of advisers are um seeming less

and less confident every time we speak

to them. So, we're now worried we might

to them So we're now worried we might

never see him again. It's good to see um

never see him again It's good to see um

this defense minister say, "Oh, welcome.

this defense minister say Oh welcome

Come, come." because now we actually,

Come come because now we actually

you know, we we have that recorded. We

you know we we have that recorded We

can we can go over there and hopefully

um we can see him. But I I still have my

um we can see him But I I still have my

doubts. Um

doubts Um

>> yeah, and also the fact that he's not

>> yeah and also the fact that he's not

the sort of person who's who's going to

make any compromises or cut a deal. So

make any compromises or cut a deal So

yeah, and yeah, at the moment that looks

yeah and yeah at the moment that looks

like the only easy route out, but I

like the only easy route out but I

think international pressure is always

an effective way of of forcing change uh

in these situations. I wonder on on

in these situations I wonder on on

messages I mean what you would say

firstly to the Pakistani government and

what would you say to the Pakistani

people because you know many say that

they are to held hostage by corrupt

governments and these authoritarians who

are changing their constitution and it's

going down a slippery uh slope of of

authoritarianism.

authoritarianism

I I would say to keep the faith and to

keep keep making noise even though that

they're the the government and the the

establishment are trying to scare them

into silence as as much as possible. Um

into silence as as much as possible Um

peacefully protest if you can.

peacefully protest if you can

>> As you say, you've been sort of you're

>> As you say you've been sort of you're

stuck between a rock and a hard place in

terms of how much you can do in terms of

your activism. you have lobbied the UN

your activism you have lobbied the UN

and special repertoire has put out a

very strong statement condemning his

solitary confi confinement and saying

it's against international law. What

it's against international law What

next for you guys in terms of what you

do you know along these lines to try and

get the word out there. I think more

get the word out there I think more

more media um like this to to spread the

word and also we're looking to to do

more more advocacy to do do trips maybe

um to Brussels and and and or Geneva in

in January um to to speak to politicians

and and uh and officials um about this

situation.

situation

>> You talk about when you were little four

and six the conversations that your

father had with you as you were growing

up. Did you think you would ever be in

up Did you think you would ever be in

this position lobbying for his release

from prison? Because of course the the

from prison Because of course the the

path that he was going down was always a

dangerous path, you know, going into

dangerous path you know going into

there has been no um leader of the

country, a prime minister of Pakistan

country a prime minister of Pakistan

who hasn't spent time in prison since

the creation of the state. It's always

the creation of the state It's always

been that murky relationship between

civilian government and uh and the the

military and the intelligence agencies

of the country. Did you think that that

of the country Did you think that that

you would be faced with this day?

you would be faced with this day

>> Um, yes, probably realistically because

>> Um yes probably realistically because

we um we spent, you know, he especially

we um we spent you know he especially

my brother spent a lot of time asking

him not to go into politics when there

were kind of these dangerous characters

killing people um consistently. Everyone

killing people um consistently Everyone

says, "Oh, you know what? These

says Oh you know what These

Pakistani politicians, they go to

Pakistani politicians they go to

prison." This is just completely

prison This is just completely

different. They're not all tortured in

different They're not all tortured in

solitary confinement cells and staying

there for, you know, upwards of two

there for you know upwards of two

years.

years

>> What do you think they're afraid of?

>> What do you think they're afraid of

>> Popularity. Yeah.

>> Popularity Yeah

>> Yeah. He's the most popular person in

>> Yeah He's the most popular person in

the country by a landslide. So the

the country by a landslide So the

moment he's out the, you know, there's

moment he's out the you know there's

no chance he'll hold on to power. So

no chance he'll hold on to power So

they're desperately clinging on to it um

however they can.

however they can

>> Those Kasum and Solomon Khan, the sons

>> Those Kasum and Solomon Khan the sons

of Imran Khan. Well, we can get reaction

of Imran Khan Well we can get reaction

now from the Pakistani government to

some of those claims made against them.

some of those claims made against them

I'm joined now by Masharov Zadei, a

I'm joined now by Masharov Zadei a

spokesperson for the Pakistani prime

minister. Mr. Zadei, thank you so much

minister Mr Zadei thank you so much

for joining us here on the program.

for joining us here on the program

We've just heard some of the interview

uh from Imran Khan's sons. I I just want

uh from Imran Khan's sons I I just want

to get your reaction to some of the

allegations that they're making.

allegations that they're making

>> Well, first of all, Yelv, thank you for

>> Well first of all Yelv thank you for

having me. I think today is a really

having me I think today is a really

important day. Uh your program began

important day Uh your program began

with coverage of Bondai Beach. I know as

with coverage of Bondai Beach I know as

someone that also is from multiple

places how personal that is for you. I

places how personal that is for you I

think just for your viewers uh you know

this is also the 11th anniversary of the

army public school attack in which 143

children were slaughtered in Pakistan in

Bashaw by terrorists. So I think just

Bashaw by terrorists So I think just

watching the show and thinking about

Bondai Beach and all the victims there

thinking about our own heroes uh we had

a teacher her name was Tahazi who fought

the terrorists and protected the

children I think you know that's kind of

the spirit that really the government

has is how can we find ways of working

with people and reducing temperatures

and so to your point about and and your

question about this interview I think as

a father and a son. I think my heart

a father and a son I think my heart

goes out to, you know, all three of his

goes out to you know all three of his

kids, his whole family, his ex-wife. Uh

kids his whole family his ex-wife Uh

the fact that Annabelle passed away

while he was in jail. These are all

while he was in jail These are all

things that are heart-wrenching and

these are things that have happened

before. You would know that Prime

before You would know that Prime

Minister, former Prime Minister Noah

Minister former Prime Minister Noah

Sharif's wife passed away while he was

in jail when when former prime minister

Imran Khan was still in office. We have

Imran Khan was still in office We have

this cycle um and and I think the cycle

continues in part because our countries

really struggled to establish order and

stability. We live in a tough

stability We live in a tough

neighborhood. Um we're surrounded by

neighborhood Um we're surrounded by

Iran, Afghanistan, China, and India.

Iran Afghanistan China and India

These are big countries. Um because of

These are big countries Um because of

my new role, I'm not allowed to say

my new role I'm not allowed to say

anything disparaging about any country.

anything disparaging about any country

Um and and I would never but but it is a

very tough neighborhood. And so when we

very tough neighborhood And so when we

have domestic unrest,

have domestic unrest

a lot of enemies of Pakistan use that

unrest to further deepen the divide to

exploit uh people's needs. But but just

exploit uh people's needs But but just

on this particular point, I mean the

on this particular point I mean the

fact that the boys are talking about

solitary confinement, you know, the fact

solitary confinement you know the fact

that they're talking about him being in

this solitary confinement for an

extended per period of time, and I just

extended per period of time and I just

want to read to you what the UN special

reportor on torture, Alice Jill Edwards

reportor on torture Alice Jill Edwards

said. I

said I

>> I've read what Alice has said. I've read

>> I've read what Alice has said I've read

what Jared Genser has been saying. I

what Jared Genser has been saying I

mean, these are people that respect a

mean these are people that respect a

lot.

lot

>> Let me and let me just inform our

audience what they've said. They said

audience what they've said They said

con solitary confinement should be

lifted without delay. Not only is it an

lifted without delay Not only is it an

unlawful measure, extended isolation can

unlawful measure extended isolation can

bring about very harmful consequences to

his physical and mental health. Your

his physical and mental health Your

response to that?

response to that

>> Well, I'm nobody to respond. I think his

>> Well I'm nobody to respond I think his

own sister, Sure. But but I think on the

own sister Sure But but I think on the

condition of Iran Khan, his own sister

condition of Iran Khan his own sister

is is the best spokesperson for his

condition because she's the one that's

met him in the last 10 days twice. Even

met him in the last 10 days twice Even

today, she came out today and they

today she came out today and they

weren't able to go.

weren't able to go

>> No, no, no. There was a meeting

>> No no no There was a meeting

yesterday. There was a meeting 5 days

yesterday There was a meeting 5 days

ago and in those

>> today is the day of um being able to see

Imran Khan. Family members have not been

Imran Khan Family members have not been

able to

>> that goes back and forth and I so I want

to run some numbers by you but but you

have to give me a moment to

>> I I I absolutely I absolutely will but I

I I just want to kind of resp get your

response. That is what I'm going to

response That is what I'm going to

respond to because I think the term

solitary confinement, death cell, proof

solitary confinement death cell proof

of life, you've used the term proof of

of life you've used the term proof of

life a lot of times and I've been

thinking I I I can't wait to talk to

you,

you

>> but you saw the rumors that that

circulated on social media because there

was no you and Richard did a show on AI

generated interviews and disinformation

and then it's almost like the same

people that are victims of

disinformation. In this case, it was you

disinformation In this case it was you

and it was uh the person uh that you

were purportedly interviewing when

>> Imran,

>> Imran

>> right? And and when the same people

>> right And and when the same people

become victim to or

>> and I'm not suggesting this, but when it

>> and I'm not suggesting this but when it

seems like they themselves are

propagating disinformation, that becomes

propagating disinformation that becomes

a real complex challenge. That's why I I

a real complex challenge That's why I I

get through the numbers. I I I want you

get through the numbers I I I want you

to address the situational

community, the UN is saying it's

community the UN is saying it's

unlawful.

unlawful

>> Well, I think the UN folks have been

>> Well I think the UN folks have been

watching Sky News too much. So maybe

watching Sky News too much So maybe

they need to chill.

they need to chill

>> I mean you would you would think the

special reptor would know what she's

talking about.

talking about

>> Like I said I think Dr. Alice Jared

>> Like I said I think Dr Alice Jared

these are these are huge names in in

their fields and I think the government

absolutely you know Pakistan is very

very keen on multilateralism. It's it's

very keen on multilateralism It's it's

really a way of life diplomacy.

really a way of life diplomacy

>> I want to keep you on this on this.

>> I want to keep you on this on this

>> Imran Khan's been incarcerated for about

860 days. Um, how many unique visits,

860 days Um how many unique visits

interviews is what we call them in our

system do you think he's had in those

860?

860

>> You tell me. You've got the numbers.

>> You tell me You've got the numbers

>> He's he's supposed to get, as you said,

>> He's he's supposed to get as you said

one every week, and it's been about 112

one every week and it's been about 112

weeks. He's had 870.

weeks He's had 870

But just on his family, he's had 137

But just on his family he's had 137

meetings with his sisters. 45 with Al

meetings with his sisters 45 with Al

Lima, 49 with Usma, 43 with Ni. Now,

Lima 49 with Usma 43 with Ni Now

Usma's numbers are a bit outdated. I

Usma's numbers are a bit outdated I

think he's had two more since then.

think he's had two more since then

These are 137 140ish.

These are 137 140ish

>> So So help me understand why the boys

haven't spoken to him on the phone.

haven't spoken to him on the phone

>> I'll come to that in a second.

>> I'll come to that in a second

>> Four months for one and five months for

>> I'll come to that in a second. But this

>> I'll come to that in a second But this

doesn't sound like solitary confinement

to me. But let me let me give you more.

to me But let me let me give you more

Let me give you more. He's had 451

Let me give you more He's had 451

interviews with his lawyers.

interviews with his lawyers

>> 451. Well, right now the UN the UN is

>> 451 Well right now the UN the UN is

saying that he hasn't adequate medical

attention.

attention

>> Let me get to the medical. Let me get to

>> Let me get to the medical Let me get to

the medical. I have a list I have a list

the medical I have a list I have a list

of 30 plus visits not only by the way

there was some talk about military

there's no military doctors in fact Dr.

there's no military doctors in fact Dr

Fessult

>> his personal physician is allowed to see

him

>> Dr. Professor Sultan has seen him.

>> Dr Professor Sultan has seen him

>> His personal physician is allowed to see

him.

him

>> Yeah, absolutely. And they have seen him

>> Yeah absolutely And they have seen him

multiple times. I'm again luckily

multiple times I'm again luckily

>> I mean I I was Why is the UN special

reperator saying this? Why is the family

reperator saying this Why is the family

saying that they didn't know where he

was?

was

>> Because they're being they're being

misinformed.

misinformed

>> Why today was this are the sisters still

waiting outside the jail and they're not

allowed?

allowed

>> The sisters aren't waiting outside the

jail.

jail

>> I was told it was supporters in the

morning and they're still outside the

jail. almost three now and there's been

jail almost three now and there's been

lots of instances of protests and and in

fact part of the reason that there was a

gap

>> so so I want to get to since you asked

the question and I know what the

question is because of course I've tried

to prepare there was a gap of about 3

and 1/2 weeks in which uh the meetings

were suspended now those meetings were

suspended because in every instance

there was a huge security issue that was

being created every interaction that the

former prime minister uh Iran Khan has

had with his lawyers with his family

becomes a political meeting. No, not

becomes a political meeting No not

now. Wait, now let me No, you read me

now Wait now let me No you read me

you read me some stuff. Now I want to

you read me some stuff Now I want to

read you rule 265.

read you rule 265

>> But but listen, I want I want to get I

>> But but listen I want I want to get I

think

>> if you never let me finish a point, I'm

>> if you never let me finish a point I'm

I'm never going to get to really answer

any of your questions.

any of your questions

>> I will. I will. But you're throwing

>> I will I will But you're throwing

stats at me and all I know is I've

spoken.

spoken

>> I'm just trying to respond to question.

>> I'm just trying to respond to question

I would never throw anything at you.

I would never throw anything at you

>> I when I spoke to his sons today,

>> I when I spoke to his sons today

they've said that they haven't spoken to

their father for 5 months. Why? So, his

their father for 5 months Why So his

last phone call was in September. I'm

last phone call was in September I'm

not sure whether one of the boys was on

it or not, but like I said, I don't want

it or not but like I said I don't want

to get into and I don't think anyone in

this government or in any government

anywhere would want to get into an

argument with two young men uh who who

have not seen their father in a long

time, but against whom there is no

time but against whom there is no

sanction to not see or not speak to

their father. None. Now, now let me get

their father None Now now let me get

through now let me get through the most

important part of this conversation.

important part of this conversation

>> Go ahead. Give me give me

>> Go ahead Give me give me

>> rule 265 of the prison rules. The boys

>> rule 265 of the prison rules The boys

and and everybody quite rightly say rule

of law. Follow the rules. Listen to the

of law Follow the rules Listen to the

including the solitary absolutely

confinement.

confinement

>> So I've already dealt with there's no

solitary confinement. Let me saying he's

solitary confinement Let me saying he's

being

Jamaima Goldmith is complaining to Elon

Musk. Let's go through solitary

Musk Let's go through solitary

confinement. Jamaima Goldman. Let me now

confinement Jamaima Goldman Let me now

you have to let me finish.

you have to let me finish

>> Okay. Go ahead. But but but I have given

>> Okay Go ahead But but but I have given

you time. I

you time I

>> But you haven't let me finish a single

one of my responses. even addressed the

one of my responses even addressed the

solitary.

solitary

>> I have responded to all your questions.

>> I have responded to all your questions

I have you've thrown numbers of the

number of times the family have visited

him. That is separate to him being kept

him That is separate to him being kept

in solitary confinement for up to 23

hours.

hours

>> He is in a he's uh labeled something

called a superior class prisoner.

called a superior class prisoner

>> But you know international law around

solitary confinement. You cannot for

solitary confinement You cannot for

extended period

>> I can't really answer your question if

you don't let me answer.

you don't let me answer

>> But but I'm I'm responding to you. I

>> But but I'm I'm responding to you I

mean, you you understand the

mean you you understand the

international law around solitary.

international law around solitary

>> If I get two words and then you cut me

off because they sound like they're

going against whatever narrative you've

been convinced. And I know how, by the

been convinced And I know how by the

way, I know where this is coming from.

way I know where this is coming from

Your questions are coming from a place

of genuinely seeking the truth and

seeking justice. And so, in order to do

seeking justice And so in order to do

justice to the conversation, repatory,

justice to the conversation repatory

>> I've dealt with that. I think that these

>> I've dealt with that I think that these

are honest people who are dealing with

bad information. And so what I'm trying

bad information And so what I'm trying

to do is provide you information, but

to do is provide you information but

you don't let let me get all of it out.

you don't let let me get all of it out

I'm going to read rule 265. You can see

I'm going to read rule 265 You can see

it's not a very long paragraph, but you

it's not a very long paragraph but you

got to let me

>> No, I can't I can't, you know, allow you

>> No I can't I can't you know allow you

to just read.

to just read

>> Can I read one sentence then?

>> Can I read one sentence then

>> Read me the one sentence and then I want

you to respond to the discussion of

political matters shall not be allowed

at these interviews. That is a blanket

at these interviews That is a blanket

discussion. Now, the reason that's

discussion Now the reason that's

important is Jamaima Goldmith complains

to Elon Musk about her tweets being

throttled. You got to let me finish.

throttled You got to let me finish

Since he went into jail, from his

Since he went into jail from his

account, there have been 575 tweets.

account there have been 575 tweets

Yela, 575 tweets for a prisoner who is

Yela 575 tweets for a prisoner who is

not allowed to have political matters

discussed at these interviews.

discussed at these interviews

Interviews taking place under apparently

solitary confinement. Look, the

solitary confinement Look the

narrative is what it is. And and I

narrative is what it is And and I

understand that there's a lot of folks

in the UK who who really love Imran Khan

and I respect that. People are free to

and I respect that People are free to

do that, but they are not allowed to

do that but they are not allowed to

manufacture their own fabric.

manufacture their own fabric

>> Zadeie, let me let me talk about

>> Zadeie let me let me talk about

>> My first name is Masharov. You can call

>> My first name is Masharov You can call

me Mash.

me Mash

>> Okay. Sorry, Mr. Zade. I can call you

>> Okay Sorry Mr Zade I can call you

Mashara. But look, you you're saying

Mashara But look you you're saying

this today, but I'm just going to pull

this today but I'm just going to pull

up a couple of your um posts on on

Twitter. One from May 9th, 2023.

Twitter One from May 9th 2023

>> Is this from before I was working for

the government or after?

the government or after

>> Before that you were working for the

government. The day Iran Khan was

government The day Iran Khan was

arrested, you wrote on social media, and

arrested you wrote on social media and

I'm going to pull it up on my screen.

I'm going to pull it up on my screen

You say Imran Khan's arrest is

disgraceful. It reconfirms that Pakistan

disgraceful It reconfirms that Pakistan

will not be able to become a normal

country anytime soon. Any election

country anytime soon Any election

process that denies Khan nor anyone else

the chance to compete freely will be a

compromised election. You go on in 2024,

compromised election You go on in 2024

in January 2024, again before you joined

in January 2024 again before you joined

uh government, you said you repeated a

uh government you said you repeated a

similar sentiment, saying Imran Khan's

similar sentiment saying Imran Khan's

jail sentence is another indication of

the systemwide barrier to his

participation in the political process.

participation in the political process

It will validate his supporters belief

that the system is rigged to deny him

and his party the path back to prime

minister's office. Do you stand by these

minister's office Do you stand by these

these tweets that you put out?

these tweets that you put out

>> At the time that I tweeted them,

>> At the time that I tweeted them

absolutely. What what happened in the

absolutely What what happened in the

time since these tweets were written and

for government?

for government

>> Well, other things happened too. Yela

>> Well other things happened too Yela

Pakistan was attacked by a country

almost 10 times its size and was able to

defend itself reasonably well even

though uh it has trouble the country has

trouble convincing folks that that's the

case. Not only was it attacked by India

case Not only was it attacked by India

but there was an attack from Iran and

there's constant terrorist attacks from

Afghanistan. What does that have to do

Afghanistan What does that have to do

with Iran Khan's treatment in jail?

with Iran Khan's treatment in jail

>> The the circumstances of the way in

which Pakistan has to deal with its

local security and governance

challenges.

challenges

>> Are you saying Iran Khan is a threat and

national security threat? Absolutely. Is

national security threat Absolutely Is

that why the defense minister responded

to my deep fake as though it was real

news? The defense minister of Pakistan

news The defense minister of Pakistan

put out a statement as though the the

deep fake that was created between me

and Imran Khan's sister talking about

the India Pakistan war which was totally

fake. He responded to it as real news. I

fake He responded to it as real news I

mean if we are going to talk about

>> disin the defense minister in his is in

his mid70s and he's an old-fashioned

guy. He fell for for fake news. You're

guy He fell for for fake news You're

yelled like at the top of your game, at

yelled like at the top of your game at

the top of the falling for fake news as

well. You keep repeating solitary

well You keep repeating solitary

confinement and keep talking about you

keep talking about and proof of life

that's that's all manufactured. So, so

that's that's all manufactured So so

if a poor old defense minister falls for

some AI stuff and and Yaldahhim falls

for this disinformation, our job our job

for this disinformation our job our job

is to basically be candid and frank with

each other and share facts which I've

tried to do in this conversation.

tried to do in this conversation

>> Can I just say is Alice Jill Edwards the

UN special reperator on torture lying?

UN special reperator on torture lying

Is the UN working group on arbitrary

>> I don't think anybody's lying. I think

>> I don't think anybody's lying I think

people people are consuming bad

information. They're consuming

information They're consuming

misinformation. think the UN

misinformation think the UN

investigates these things thoroughly

enough. They just put out statements

enough They just put out statements

based on

>> Neither. Neither what I have a gripe

>> Neither Neither what I have a gripe

with you on a totally separate issue

which is that you haven't visited

Pakistan in God knows how many years.

Pakistan in God knows how many years

It's been decades since you were in

Pakistan.

Pakistan

>> It was not I was there about nine years

ago

>> almost a decade.

>> almost a decade

>> But but if if you give me a visa I'm

happily I'd happily come and look. Would

happily I'd happily come and look Would

you give me an interview with Imran

Khan?

Khan

>> Well we'll give you an interview with

the sitting prime minister. I'm not sure

the sitting prime minister I'm not sure

that I'm not sure that given the prison

rules that I just cited that we'll be

allowed to afford Sky News the chance to

break Pakistan's laws. I think people

break Pakistan's laws I think people

want rule of law, but they want it very

want rule of law but they want it very

specifically in circumstances that

allows Imran Khan to enjoy total freedom

at a time of incarceration. The whole

at a time of incarceration The whole

purpose of once you're a convicted

criminal is that you're in jail and you

you lose your freedom. The fact that the

you lose your freedom The fact that the

UN working group on arbitrary detention

terms Khan's detention has also

politically motivated. I mean that's the

politically motivated I mean that's the

UN working group saying it's politically

motivated. It's the special no the UN

motivated It's the special no the UN

working group on arbitrary detention.

working group on arbitrary detention

They termed Khan's detention arbitrary

and politically

>> also based on no on the ground

investigation. They have not visited the

investigation They have not visited the

country. Neither has July has been to

country Neither has July has been to

the country. has yelled.

the country has yelled

>> They haven't asked.

>> They haven't asked

>> I'm asking you.

>> I'm asking you

>> I I just told you. Listen, I'm I'm so

>> I I just told you Listen I'm I'm so

visa officer is slightly below sort of

my pay grade, but I'm still happy to put

my pay grade but I'm still happy to put

in a call and anytime you want to visit

Pakistan, we'll welcome you with open

Pakistan we'll welcome you with open

arms. I think we're so proud of the

arms I think we're so proud of the

excellent work that you do. We're

excellent work that you do We're

concerned about how much disinformation

is getting is getting across your

filters, but other than that, we we

filters but other than that we we

would be happy to welcome you to

Pakistan. There's a lot to talk about in

Pakistan There's a lot to talk about in

Pakistan. We're going to privatize our

Pakistan We're going to privatize our

national airline. We've gone our our

national airline We've gone our our

credit default swap rate was at 40%.

credit default swap rate was at 40

It's gone down to four. Our inflation

It's gone down to four Our inflation

was at 40%. It's gone down to four. This

was at 40 It's gone down to four This

is there's a real story in Pakistan and

the one you're covering isn't it?

the one you're covering isn't it

>> No. The treatment of a former prime

>> No The treatment of a former prime

minister being described as arbitrary

detention treated like a prince meeting

870 times with his lawyer, his family.

870 times with his lawyer his family

You know, I I I asked you to defer to

You know I I I asked you to defer to

the UN special reperator on torching

mushi. I'm sorry. I've got 10 seconds

mushi I'm sorry I've got 10 seconds

before the top of the hour. Thank you so

before the top of the hour Thank you so

much for joining I really appreciate you

having me

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