Watch and Learn - Soumaya Keynes & Chad P. Bown - "How to Win a Trade War"

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Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for joining us

I'm glad that we chose this seating

arrangement because you're-- how tall are you?

arrangement because you're- how tall are you

Very tall.

Very tall

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Yeah that's what I thought

When you came out at first, I thought,

When you came out at first I thought

I bet this gentleman can dunk.

I bet this gentleman can dunk

All right.

All right

That's how I said it.

That's how I said it

How to Win a Trade War.

How to Win a Trade War

Boy, this would come in handy if we found

Boy this would come in handy if we found

ourselves in a trade war.

ourselves in a trade war

Are we in a trade war?

Are we in a trade war

Yeah.

Yeah

We are in a trade war?

We are in a trade war

With everyone?

With everyone

Yeah.

Yeah

Whole world?

Whole world

Are we winning?

Are we winning

Oh boy.

Oh boy

What?

What

How would we know?

How would we know

Oh boy.

Oh boy

Are we winning against anybody?

Are we winning against anybody

Is Belgium-- are we beating Belgium?

Is Belgium- are we beating Belgium

So.

I feel like the two doctors try

not to break bad news to me.

not to break bad news to me

So we are-- the trade war.

So we are- the trade war

Let's be clear.

Let's be clear

We launched the trade war.

We launched the trade war

Correct?

Correct

Yes.

Yes

Liberation day launched the trade war?

Liberation day launched the trade war

Yes.

Yes

You can speak more than one word.

You can speak more than one word

OK OK.

OK OK

So yes.

So yes

So just over a year ago, Donald Trump

So just over a year ago Donald Trump

decided to ignore the most basic military strategy

and fight a war on all the fronts at the same time.

and fight a war on all the fronts at the same time

He launched a trade war against everybody.

He launched a trade war against everybody

Everybody everybody.

Everybody everybody

And yeah, there is a reason you're not supposed to do that.

And yeah there is a reason you're not supposed to do that

Would that be in here?

Would that be in here

Maybe maybe.

Maybe maybe

And so stepping back, right?

And so stepping back right

The problem in the global economy--

The problem in the global economy-

there is a real trade problem in the global economy,

there is a real trade problem in the global economy

and it's to do with the relationship with China.

and it's to do with the relationship with China

And that is a significant issue.

And that is a significant issue

And what would have been good is to work with

allies because--

allies because-

I'm sorry, what was the last part?

I'm sorry what was the last part

Because when you fight a war on all the fronts,

Because when you fight a war on all the fronts

that means your allies are also fighting

a war on all of the fronts.

a war on all of the fronts

So suddenly, Europe was going to try

So suddenly Europe was going to try

to deal with the China issue, but

to deal with the China issue but

now it's having to also deal with the US issue

at the same time.

at the same time

What would the metrics be of a--

What would the metrics be of a-

so how do we even judge whether or not--

so how do we even judge whether or not-

so we understand the strategy should

not have been to fire on our allies as well as our rivals.

not have been to fire on our allies as well as our rivals

What are the metrics of a trade war?

What are the metrics of a trade war

How do we judge it?

How do we judge it

I think the most important one

is, can you do what you want?

is can you do what you want

Or are you being constrained by your vulnerabilities to not

be able to do what you want?

be able to do what you want

I think that's the biggest key to show

how we're losing right now.

how we're losing right now

When we say, can we do what we want, we mean,

When we say can we do what we want we mean

can we sell our products where we

want to sell them for the price we would like to sell them at?

want to sell them for the price we would like to sell them at

That could be part of it.

That could be part of it

It could be that we want to impose policies.

It could be that we want to impose policies

Maybe we're worried about certain countries

out there that rhyme with Schmina.

out there that rhyme with Schmina

I had a different rhyme earlier, but yours works, too.

I had a different rhyme earlier but yours works too

And maybe you want to do things like tariffs or export

restrictions or be a little tough on certain issues,

restrictions or be a little tough on certain issues

but you can't because you're worried

about them standing up to you in a way

that you're really vulnerable.

that you're really vulnerable

And that's where we found ourselves last year.

And that's where we found ourselves last year

China has figured out how to play a trade war,

China has figured out how to play a trade war

how to at least win a trade war at the moment.

how to at least win a trade war at the moment

And that's because we're vulnerable to a lot of things

we need for our economy to work that, really,

we need for our economy to work that really

China is the only one out there that makes right now.

China is the only one out there that makes right now

How are we vulnerable?

How are we vulnerable

What is it that China does that makes us vulnerable?

What is it that China does that makes us vulnerable

They mine, process, manufacture into magnets

They mine process manufacture into magnets

something called rare earths.

something called rare earths

Yes

So they go into cars and to defense systems.

So they go into cars and to defense systems

Electronics.

Electronics

Electronics.

Electronics

I never thought I would know so much about rare earths supply

chains, but here we are.

chains but here we are

And essentially, China has been copying what the US

And essentially China has been copying what the US

has been doing, I think.

has been doing I think

Because the US has been restricting

exports to China for a while.

exports to China for a while

And so the Chinese just looked at what the US was doing

and said, OK, we can do that, too.

and said OK we can do that too

So we do strategic restrictions.

So we do strategic restrictions

And you talk about this in the book, strategic restrictions

And you talk about this in the book strategic restrictions

on exports, meaning the one advantage we have is our chips

on exports meaning the one advantage we have is our chips

are apparently second to none.

are apparently second to none

We're apparently two to three months ahead of everybody

else when it comes to chips.

else when it comes to chips

So we restrict that from going directly to China.

So we restrict that from going directly to China

That's our leverage.

That's our leverage

And the equipment that is used to make the chips.

And the equipment that is used to make the chips

But we don't do that.

But we don't do that

That's done in Taiwan, is it not?

That's done in Taiwan is it not

So we do some of it.

So we do some of it

We also work with allies, so Japan and the Netherlands.

We also work with allies so Japan and the Netherlands

The Netherlands actually does the fanciest pieces

of these equipment.

of these equipment

We work with their government to say, hey, let's

We work with their government to say hey let's

not send that stuff to China.

not send that stuff to China

What is it?

What is it

Is that the part where they frost the thing?

Is that the part where they frost the thing

Yeah yeah.

Yeah yeah

You stick your finger in it.

You stick your finger in it

Yeah, that works.

Yeah that works

Exactly yeah.

Exactly yeah

Nice.

Nice

But yeah, so we have been doing that kind of thing,

But yeah so we have been doing that kind of thing

but for military purposes.

but for military purposes

We're really worried about China getting

hold of these super fancy chips because it would enhance

their military capabilities, and

their military capabilities and

that's why we didn't want to send it to them.

that's why we didn't want to send it to them

China is doing something that's very different-- not sending

China is doing something that's very different- not sending

us these rare earths is--

us these rare earths is-

But they did that in response.

But they did that in response

Yes, they did it in response.

Yes they did it in response

They were not doing it prior to this.

They were not doing it prior to this

Well, they have done it in the past.

Well they have done it in the past

They did this back, actually, in 2010

They did this back actually in 2010

when they got mad at Japan for something at the time.

when they got mad at Japan for something at the time

But didn't Japan at that point

get themselves a backlog, a stockpile of rare earths

get themselves a backlog a stockpile of rare earths

in preparation for this type of thing?

in preparation for this type of thing

Did we do that before launching this trade war?

Did we do that before launching this trade war

Son of a-- is that in the book?

Son of a- is that in the book

Yeah, Japan got hit early, and they prepared.

Yeah Japan got hit early and they prepared

And so they acted in a very extreme way

to reduce their reliance on China.

to reduce their reliance on China

They were ahead of the game.

They were ahead of the game

And then when China did it to everyone else last year,

And then when China did it to everyone else last year

everyone else was looking to Japan to say, oh,

everyone else was looking to Japan to say oh

well, why didn't we do that?

well why didn't we do that

So you're saying, if I may paraphrase,

So you're saying if I may paraphrase

we launched a trade war rashly, too broadly,

we launched a trade war rashly too broadly

without proper preparation and now

find ourselves mired in an event

that we are are now losing.

that we are are now losing

This is just so out of character

for this administration that I don't know what got into them.

for this administration that I don't know what got into them

It's almost like trade wars are like real wars.

It's almost like trade wars are like real wars

Logistics win real wars.

Logistics win real wars

You need to--

You need to-

Well, thank God we haven't launched one of those.

Well thank God we haven't launched one of those

Let me ask you a question.

Let me ask you a question

When you talk about it as being like a real war,

When you talk about it as being like a real war

do they wargame--

do they wargame-

I understand that they would say, like, if you attack Iran,

I understand that they would say like if you attack Iran

we wargame it.

we wargame it

And most times, they close the Strait of Hormuz,

And most times they close the Strait of Hormuz

and that's known.

and that's known

Do they wargame trade wars?

Do they wargame trade wars

Who's they?

Who's they

The Illuminati?

The Illuminati

I don't know.

I don't know

You're the economist.

You're the economist

Yes, so some governments absolutely are doing this.

Yes so some governments absolutely are doing this

And so I think-- - They plan it.

And so I think- They plan it

They plan it.

They plan it

What might happen?

What might happen

And not all of it's just the fear

of trade war and real wars.

of trade war and real wars

I think we learned a lot of lessons

during the pandemic, when we ran short of products,

during the pandemic when we ran short of products

and we suddenly became very worried about supply

chain vulnerabilities.

chain vulnerabilities

We couldn't get access to toilet paper initially,

We couldn't get access to toilet paper initially

but then it became things like semiconductors.

but then it became things like semiconductors

And all of a sudden, governments

And all of a sudden governments

all around the world started to look

more closely at where they were getting some

of these essential goods from.

of these essential goods from

And they did really sophisticated data

analytic exercises to try to figure it out.

analytic exercises to try to figure it out

And then many of them have done wargaming exercises

to try to figure out how to minimize a lot

of those vulnerabilities.

of those vulnerabilities

I'm not so sure that was the approach

that this administration took when they came in last January.

that this administration took when they came in last January

You're not so sure?

You're not so sure

So the idea, though, is a country

So the idea though is a country

is looking to assess its vulnerabilities,

is looking to assess its vulnerabilities

assess its strengths, and shore up those vulnerabilities

assess its strengths and shore up those vulnerabilities

to create resilience.

to create resilience

Now, what we've been told is the reason

Now what we've been told is the reason

we launched this trade war is to reverse

the years of hollowing out manufacturing,

the years of hollowing out manufacturing

but that sounds backwards to me.

but that sounds backwards to me

Wouldn't you use other methodologies

to increase manufacturing before launching

a trade war so that you would be more resilient in that war?

a trade war so that you would be more resilient in that war

Yeah, it's a good point.

Yeah it's a good point

So more positively, I think you have a future

So more positively I think you have a future

ahead of you in policy.

ahead of you in policy

In trade wars.

In trade wars

I can launch a trade war.

I can launch a trade war

Let me ask you this.

Let me ask you this

So we talk about this, and it's very

So we talk about this and it's very

interesting because the analogy is launching a real war.

interesting because the analogy is launching a real war

And we talk about this really as a form of nationalism.

And we talk about this really as a form of nationalism

Where do corporations fit into the playing

field in trade wars?

field in trade wars

Because we're talking, you're going after China,

Because we're talking you're going after China

you're going after the Netherlands,

you're going after the Netherlands

you're going after the EU.

you're going after the EU

Multinational corporations have no allegiance.

Multinational corporations have no allegiance

Who are they in all this?

Who are they in all this

So I think multinationals are the soldiers in the trade war.

So I think multinationals are the soldiers in the trade war

The governments make the policy.

The governments make the policy

They're the commanders, and then the companies are the ones

They're the commanders and then the companies are the ones

actually implementing it.

actually implementing it

And so if we think back to those vulnerabilities,

And so if we think back to those vulnerabilities

ultimately, those are the product of companies

ultimately those are the product of companies

responding to incentives.

responding to incentives

For years, it was cheap, it was efficient to buy

For years it was cheap it was efficient to buy

your components from China.

your components from China

That was where all the other manufacturing was.

That was where all the other manufacturing was

And policymakers encouraged them.

And policymakers encouraged them

And now, what we're seeing is the result

And now what we're seeing is the result

of those companies responding to those incentives and saying,

of those companies responding to those incentives and saying

oh wait what?

oh wait what

The Chinese can suddenly cut us off?

The Chinese can suddenly cut us off

It's also US car companies that are sourcing, from China,

It's also US car companies that are sourcing from China

all those rare earths.

all those rare earths

Are we in a position-- because you

Are we in a position- because you

said that they're the soldiers in our war.

said that they're the soldiers in our war

It almost appears to me that they're actually

the soldiers that started the war,

the soldiers that started the war

because globalization and the introduction of China

into the WTO and all that--

into the WTO and all that-

capital travels, but labor can't.

capital travels but labor can't

So when these companies, which are built in Silicon Valley

So when these companies which are built in Silicon Valley

or wherever it is, using the infrastructure

or wherever it is using the infrastructure

of the United States--

of the United States-

Silicon Valley doesn't exist without taxpayer

funding and government resources, any of those things.

funding and government resources any of those things

We built them.

We built them

And then they could just go, [BLEEP] these guys.

And then they could just go BLEEP these guys

We're going to where we don't have to pay our workers

anything, and we get to do everything,

anything and we get to do everything

and we can hollow out the very country that made us possible.

and we can hollow out the very country that made us possible

And now we've got to fight a trade

war to beg them to come back?

war to beg them to come back

China would never put up with that, would they?

China would never put up with that would they

No.

[LAUGHTER]

LAUGHTER

Not to go into Jeremiah, but I

Not to go into Jeremiah but I

don't understand how they're allowed

to get us into this mess, and then we've got to figure

to get us into this mess and then we've got to figure

out a way to get out of it.

out a way to get out of it

So there's a couple things there.

So there's a couple things there

One, I think China has very different relationships

One I think China has very different relationships

with its companies than we do.

with its companies than we do

And I think one of the--

And I think one of the-

agree.

agree

The way we should think about companies these days

is they're really not American companies.

is they're really not American companies

They're multinationals.

They're multinationals

They're themselves.

They're themselves

They're their own entities, and we can't expect them,

They're their own entities and we can't expect them

as Soumaya put it, to fight our battles for us, unless you

as Soumaya put it to fight our battles for us unless you

incentivize them to, unless you create the right regulations

incentivize them to unless you create the right regulations

to force them to behave in certain ways,

to force them to behave in certain ways

they're just gonna act in their own interests.

they're just gonna act in their own interests

And if that means going where workers are cheaper,

And if that means going where workers are cheaper

that's what they're gonna do, and that's where

that's what they're gonna do and that's where

they're gonna make things.

they're gonna make things

Now, there are some benefits to that though, too, right?

Now there are some benefits to that though too right

We actually do get, through international trade,

We actually do get through international trade

access to much cheaper products than we would otherwise.

access to much cheaper products than we would otherwise

And I think we've seen today, with inflation,

And I think we've seen today with inflation

people like it when prices are lower

than when prices are higher.

than when prices are higher

So there are lots of benefits from trade that we don't

completely want to eliminate.

completely want to eliminate

But I think we do need to recognize that that

does sometimes come with costs, and

does sometimes come with costs and

especially costs for workers.

especially costs for workers

And that has to be something that's dealt with as well.

And that has to be something that's dealt with as well

Why, then, are governments incentivized

Why then are governments incentivized

to always ways lubricate the way for corporations

but not workers?

but not workers

Why are workers just always the inevitable victims

of all of these shenanigans?

of all of these shenanigans

It's hard to understand that the government

wouldn't put some limitations.

wouldn't put some limitations

If you want access to our infrastructure,

If you want access to our infrastructure

you can't just screw over our workers because it's easier.

you can't just screw over our workers because it's easier

Yeah.

Yeah

[LAUGHTER]

LAUGHTER

Part of it, I think, is the political process.

Part of it I think is the political process

In Washington, it's much easier for the big companies

In Washington it's much easier for the big companies

to organize and lobby and get the policies that they want,

to organize and lobby and get the policies that they want

and it's much more difficult for workers

to do the same thing.

to do the same thing

JON STEWART: So they're not soldiers.

JON STEWART: So they're not soldiers

They're mercenaries.

They're mercenaries

They're Blackwater.

They're Blackwater

They're not soldiers, because soldiers

They're not soldiers because soldiers

take an oath to the nation that birthed them, and they don't.

take an oath to the nation that birthed them and they don't

So how, in a trade war--

So how in a trade war-

because how does it figure in, in a trade war,

because how does it figure in in a trade war

that we can come to a better understanding

with these corporations of what our expectations are for them.

with these corporations of what our expectations are for them

So I think what the Trump administration

is trying to do is, it's trying to reset that bargain, right?

is trying to do is it's trying to reset that bargain right

So it's saying, if you want to serve US customers,

So it's saying if you want to serve US customers

then you've got to operate in the US.

then you've got to operate in the US

And it's trying to do that with its trade tools.

And it's trying to do that with its trade tools

And I think the tricky reality is

that it's extremely hard to force these mercenary companies

to do that.

to do that

And so the risk is that you end up essentially taxing imports,

And so the risk is that you end up essentially taxing imports

so you put up tariffs, you make it harder for companies

so you put up tariffs you make it harder for companies

to get stuff from overseas.

to get stuff from overseas

And what those companies do is, they don't reshore.

And what those companies do is they don't reshore

They just do less of everything.

They just do less of everything

It can be really, really--

It can be really really-

the problem that you identify is real.

the problem that you identify is real

The challenge is getting that trade war

then to solve that problem.

then to solve that problem

That link isn't--

That link isn't-

Well yeah.

Well yeah

No, that's exactly it.

No that's exactly it

Because it seems to me that, well,

Because it seems to me that well

now we're going after China and the EU,

now we're going after China and the EU

but we're still not addressing the elephant

in the room, which is these free agent mercenaries.

in the room which is these free agent mercenaries

So let me ask you this, if this is reasonable.

So let me ask you this if this is reasonable

There's a lot of times that someone might say, all right,

There's a lot of times that someone might say all right

we'll pay for your college, but you

we'll pay for your college but you

have to give us four years of service

as a teacher in these certain districts.

as a teacher in these certain districts

It's a way for us to get the people

that we need, to give them something,

that we need to give them something

but to expect something in return.

but to expect something in return

Is that the type of arrangement that

can be done for the tax money and infrastructure

that we use to build these companies?

that we use to build these companies

Yeah.

Yeah

I was just gonna say, there are things

I was just gonna say there are things

that I think we can do to treat corporations differently,

that I think we can do to treat corporations differently

but it's not through tariffs, right?

but it's not through tariffs right

So I think--

So I think-

JON STEWART: Not through trade wars.

JON STEWART: Not through trade wars

Not through trade wars.

Not through trade wars

JON STEWART: This is not a good way to do it.

JON STEWART: This is not a good way to do it

No.

I mean, there's been efforts over the last 10 years

I mean there's been efforts over the last 10 years

to try to get global corporations to not

be tax evaders, to not go to tax haven countries,

be tax evaders to not go to tax haven countries

to have them pay minimum taxes somewhere in the world.

to have them pay minimum taxes somewhere in the world

I think that's a more effective strategy,

I think that's a more effective strategy

trying to get these companies to behave and

be better global corporate citizens

than just whacking them with tariffs.

than just whacking them with tariffs

Because with tariffs come all the bad things.

Because with tariffs come all the bad things

Best-case scenario, maybe they do

Best-case scenario maybe they do

bring some of that production back to The United States.

bring some of that production back to The United States

We get more manufacturing here.

We get more manufacturing here

But because we've made it so expensive because of tariffs

for them to do so, they can't hire any workers,

for them to do so they can't hire any workers

and they just have to do it all with robots.

and they just have to do it all with robots

And at the end of the day, how does that

And at the end of the day how does that

really help us, if we're really worried

really help us if we're really worried

about the American worker?

about the American worker

You bring something up in the book

that I thought was really interesting

about wage insurance.

about wage insurance

Because my concern is that there

are casualties in trade wars that are the multinationals.

are casualties in trade wars that are the multinationals

He's cutting deals with Apple and Intel

and NVIDIA and all these big players,

and NVIDIA and all these big players

but the people that are suffering

are the small businesses in America, the people that

are the small businesses in America the people that

don't like uncertainty and can't adjust their business

practices to all these fluctuating tariffs and all

these other changing things.

these other changing things

But there's a program you mentioned called

wage insurance, and it's generally done--

wage insurance and it's generally done-

and correct me if I'm wrong.

and correct me if I'm wrong

If you lose a job in manufacturing

because it was globalized and you get another job that

isn't paying as well, the government provides you

isn't paying as well the government provides you

the money up to that level.

the money up to that level

Is that correct?

Is that correct

Yeah.

Yeah

I think it's a certain share of the difference, basically.

I think it's a certain share of the difference basically

So they're cushioning that blow.

So they're cushioning that blow

So you if you've just lost your job,

So you if you've just lost your job

that means that you have some help.

that means that you have some help

You've got a cushion, and so your income doesn't fall.

You've got a cushion and so your income doesn't fall

You're also encouraged to get a new job.

You're also encouraged to get a new job

Maybe you switch to a new industry,

Maybe you switch to a new industry

something that isn't so vulnerable toward

those globalization forces.

those globalization forces

And the evidence that we have suggests that it actually

can pay for itself, which is kind of never

can pay for itself which is kind of never

heard of in economic policies.

heard of in economic policies

So I think over the last couple of decades,

So I think over the last couple of decades

economists have really beaten themselves

up about helping the people who are

left behind by globalization.

left behind by globalization

And because trade tools are so bad at helping the worker,

And because trade tools are so bad at helping the worker

really, what you need is better worker

really what you need is better worker

protections, including potentially

protections including potentially

programs like that one.

programs like that one

JON STEWART: Right.

JON STEWART: Right

So let me ask you a question, which brings up the point,

So let me ask you a question which brings up the point

what if we use that preemptively in our war?

what if we use that preemptively in our war

So rather than wage insurance to help people

in areas that have been hollowed out by globalization,

in areas that have been hollowed out by globalization

use wage insurance to go to those companies who

were going to go overseas and say,

were going to go overseas and say

we will make up at least most of the difference

between what you would pay your workers in China

and what you would pay them in Kentucky?

and what you would pay them in Kentucky

And we do that preemptively, so those communities never

And we do that preemptively so those communities never

get hollowed out in the first place.

get hollowed out in the first place

Could that be part of an industry and industrial policy

that actually-- rather than how to win a trade

that actually- rather than how to win a trade

war, a book on the next book, the sequel,

war a book on the next book the sequel

how to survive a trade war, would

how to survive a trade war would

that be a possible solution?

that be a possible solution

100%.

100

There's there's so much more that we

can do in terms of adjusting the tax code to make it more

beneficial for companies to hire workers and not

have to pay sort of extraordinary taxes

and other burdens and things like that.

and other burdens and things like that

And I think that's really what the emphasis should be on.

And I think that's really what the emphasis should be on

How does this wind down?

How does this wind down

How do we find our way out of this?

How do we find our way out of this

Do you have an idea?

Do you have an idea

Have you seen this play out before?

Have you seen this play out before

[SIGHS] So--

SIGHS So-

There's a lot of spying going on now.

There's a lot of spying going on now

Yeah yeah.

Yeah yeah

Well, I've got a confession.

Well I've got a confession

So it's an optimistic guide.

So it's an optimistic guide

And you know--

And you know-

What?

What

Well, we go through some scenarios for how we could

Well we go through some scenarios for how we could

get ourselves out of this.

get ourselves out of this

And my confession is that a lot of the happy, sunlit uplands

And my confession is that a lot of the happy sunlit uplands

are quite a long way in the future.

are quite a long way in the future

JON STEWART: There's a lot of 2050 in this.

JON STEWART: There's a lot of 2050 in this

Yeah, there's a lot of 2050.

Yeah there's a lot of 2050

And so right now, I think we're a bit worried

And so right now I think we're a bit worried

that things are gonna have to get

worse before they get better.

worse before they get better

But eventually, it really should be possible for us

But eventually it really should be possible for us

all to come together and stop brandishing

all these trade weapons.

all these trade weapons

Look, this is optimistic.

Look this is optimistic

No, this is very-- yeah

No this is very- yeah

Yeah.

Yeah

Eventually, we should be able to get together and

Eventually we should be able to get together and

do something that's mutually beneficial,

do something that's mutually beneficial

so we can escape the chaos.

so we can escape the chaos

JON STEWART: Chad?

JON STEWART: Chad

This is not going away.

This is not going away

[LAUGHS]

LAUGHS

You were just talking--

You were just talking-

Have you guys talked to each other about this?

Have you guys talked to each other about this

Yeah.

Yeah

I'm the optimistic one in the book, actually.

I'm the optimistic one in the book actually

She's the pessimist.

She's the pessimist

No, the issue is not going away.

No the issue is not going away

You just gave all this great advice to graduates, right?

You just gave all this great advice to graduates right

Saddle up.

Saddle up

[LAUGHS] Fantastic!

LAUGHS Fantastic

Thank you both very much for coming by.

Thank you both very much for coming by

How to Win a Trade War, May 26.

How to Win a Trade War May 26

Available for pre-order.

Available for pre-order

Soumaya Keynes and Chad Bown.

Soumaya Keynes and Chad Bown

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