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my guest tonight. He is an independent
my guest tonight He is an independent
senator from Vermont. His latest book is
senator from Vermont His latest book is
called Fight Oligarchy. Please welcome
called Fight Oligarchy Please welcome
to the program Senator Bernie Sanders.
to the program Senator Bernie Sanders
Sir,
Sir
Fair enough.
Fair enough
>> Been here 20 years. Never as much as a
>> Been here 20 years Never as much as a
John.
John
>> Only you, brother. Uh, first of all,
>> Only you brother Uh first of all
thank you for being here. How were uh
thank you for being here How were uh
these no king rallies? You went, you
these no king rallies You went you
addressed one. Where where did you
addressed one Where where did you
speak? What was
speak What was
>> in DC? There were some 200,000
>> in DC There were some 200000
people out in DC.
people out in DC
Uh there were some 7 million people out
Uh there were some 7 million people out
in 2600 events all over the country, not
in 2600 events all over the country not
only in big cities but in small towns.
only in big cities but in small towns
Bottom line, extraordinary people came
Bottom line extraordinary people came
out. They said no to Trumpism, no to
out They said no to Trumpism no to
authoritarianism,
authoritarianism
no to oligarchy.
no to oligarchy
It was uh uh and it and it grew from the
It was uh uh and it and it grew from the
previous uh expression of those. And
previous uh expression of those And
obviously you can go back and you can
obviously you can go back and you can
say well it's you know maybe the left is
say well it's you know maybe the left is
building a similar thing uh to to the
building a similar thing uh to to the
tea party with all this
tea party with all this
potential energy
potential energy
that's moving in that direction.
that's moving in that direction
How do you harness that for purpose for
How do you harness that for purpose for
being directional? There not a lot of
being directional There not a lot of
people out there other than yourself,
people out there other than yourself
other than Representative Cortez, who
other than Representative Cortez who
are very clearly delineated about a
are very clearly delineated about a
point of view that people can rally
point of view that people can rally
behind.
behind
>> Well, let me just say two things. We are
>> Well let me just say two things We are
in an extraordinarily dangerous time, as
in an extraordinarily dangerous time as
you know. You got an authoritarian
you know You got an authoritarian
president who wants more and more power,
president who wants more and more power
doesn't respect the Constitution,
doesn't respect the Constitution
doesn't respect the law.
doesn't respect the law
>> Well, Supreme Court that's granting it
>> Well Supreme Court that's granting it
to him,
to him
>> right? That's true. I mean, that's part
>> right That's true I mean that's part
of the process. I mean, you got a
of the process I mean you got a
Republican party that's now lock step.
Republican party that's now lock step
It's kind of a cult of the individual.
It's kind of a cult of the individual
We got to stop him. But there's
We got to stop him But there's
something else that we got to do, John.
something else that we got to do John
We have to have a vision for the future
We have to have a vision for the future
of this country.
of this country
>> And and I I think that many of my my
>> And and I I think that many of my my
colleagues in the Democratic party have
colleagues in the Democratic party have
not had that vision. And what what that
not had that vision And what what that
means is that we should not accept the
means is that we should not accept the
fact that we have so much income and
fact that we have so much income and
wealth inequality that you got one guy,
wealth inequality that you got one guy
Mr. Musk, owning more wealth than the
Mr Musk owning more wealth than the
bottom 52% of the American people. That
bottom 52 of the American people That
we have a corrupt campaign finance
we have a corrupt campaign finance
system that allows billionaires in both
system that allows billionaires in both
parties to determine who wins and who
parties to determine who wins and who
loses elections. Right.
loses elections Right
>> Right. And the vision has got to be and
>> Right And the vision has got to be and
I want people to think about this in
I want people to think about this in
this extraordinarily great country,
this extraordinarily great country
wealthy country, why don't we guarantee
wealthy country why don't we guarantee
healthcare to every man, woman and child
healthcare to every man woman and child
that so this is what the rebel needs to
that so this is what the rebel needs to
learn. So
learn So
in this moment all this potential energy
in this moment all this potential energy
there is clearly a thirst in this
there is clearly a thirst in this
country for uh leadership and and and
country for uh leadership and and and
smart politics. You know, I know uh
smart politics You know I know uh
Kamla's book was 107 days, this
Kamla's book was 107 days this
shortened time that she had uh uh to run
shortened time that she had uh uh to run
the campaign, but the Democrats have had
the campaign but the Democrats have had
now
now
>> a much longer time frame.
>> a much longer time frame
>> Yes.
>> Yes
>> And yet, to my mind, have not
>> And yet to my mind have not
articulated
articulated
>> Yes.
>> Yes
>> a simple clear vision addressing those
>> a simple clear vision addressing those
very things at all.
very things at all
>> In fact, I would go further. There seems
>> In fact I would go further There seems
to be a whole thing where they say,
to be a whole thing where they say
"Let's not address that vision. What we
Let's not address that vision What we
need to do is not bother anybody and be
need to do is not bother anybody and be
just totally
just totally
>> You're not far from wrong. I And and
>> You're not far from wrong I And and
it's a conscious decision. You're I
it's a conscious decision You're I
mean, look,
mean look
>> it's my GPS. I'm near right.
>> it's my GPS I'm near right
>> Look, um and a lot of that gets back to
>> Look um and a lot of that gets back to
money. Basically, if you're a political
money Basically if you're a political
party, you got to make a decision. Do
party you got to make a decision Do
you go where the money is, where the
you go where the money is where the
billionaires are, where the super PACs
billionaires are where the super PACs
are and kind of do what these guys want?
are and kind of do what these guys want
Or do you go where the working class and
Or do you go where the working class and
the middle class of this country are?
the middle class of this country are
And those are people who are hurting,
And those are people who are hurting
who want real change. You know, I'll
who want real change You know I'll
give Donald Trump, he may be crazy, he
give Donald Trump he may be crazy he
may be a pathological liar, but he's not
may be a pathological liar but he's not
stupid. And
stupid And
>> I'm going to say something. That's a
>> I'm going to say something That's a
rather passive aggressive comment. I
rather passive aggressive comment I
think
think
it's classic.
it's classic
>> All right. But what I mean by that is
>> All right But what I mean by that is
the message that he gives off in one way
the message that he gives off in one way
or another is the system is broken.
or another is the system is broken
Right.
Right
>> Yes.
>> Yes
>> And I alone can fix the system. Well,
>> And I alone can fix the system Well
the truth is the system is broken. He is
the truth is the system is broken He is
making it worse. But the Democrats have
making it worse But the Democrats have
got to acknowledge that the system is
got to acknowledge that the system is
broken.
broken
>> I'll go you one better. You know, if you
>> I'll go you one better You know if you
think about because your message has
think about because your message has
always been consistent. You've spoken
always been consistent You've spoken
this way since you first came on the
this way since you first came on the
scene for a very long time and you've
scene for a very long time and you've
always been clear about it.
always been clear about it
You could almost make a case that the
You could almost make a case that the
true inheritor of the Sanders revolution
true inheritor of the Sanders revolution
is Trump. He's the most socialist
is Trump He's the most socialist
president of my lifetime. Taking a
president of my lifetime Taking a
percentage of companies to do business,
percentage of companies to do business
that's a Bernie Sanders idea.
that's a Bernie Sanders idea
>> Yeah. Doing a a Trump RX where the
>> Yeah Doing a a Trump RX where the
government is involved in in selling
government is involved in in selling
pharmaceuticals, that's a Bernie Sanders
pharmaceuticals that's a Bernie Sanders
idea. It's not only his his some of his
idea It's not only his his some of his
policies, some of his other policies,
policies some of his other policies
let's not forget is throwing 15 million
let's not forget is throwing 15 million
people off the healthcare they are have
people off the healthcare they are have
in doubling healthcare premiums.
in doubling healthcare premiums
>> He's not perfect
>> He's not perfect
>> and giving a say he was perfect
>> and giving a say he was perfect
>> and giving a trillion dollars of tax
>> and giving a trillion dollars of tax
breaks is the one.
breaks is the one
>> Is it frustrating that this this the
>> Is it frustrating that this this the
thing that you fought for your whole
thing that you fought for your whole
career Democrats are the ones who run
career Democrats are the ones who run
away from scared and he's embraced some
away from scared and he's embraced some
of it.
of it
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. All right. So,
>> Yeah Yeah that's true All right So
what do we got to do? I mean, first of
what do we got to do I mean first of
all, you got to acknowledge bloody
all you got to acknowledge bloody
reality. Health care system is broken.
reality Health care system is broken
Boom.
Boom
>> All right. We need to do what every
>> All right We need to do what every
other major country does. Guarantee
other major country does Guarantee
healthcare to every man, woman, and
healthcare to every man woman and
child. Take on the greed of the
child Take on the greed of the
pharmaceutical industry and the
pharmaceutical industry and the
insurance companies. Okay. We're
insurance companies Okay We're
spending more than enough money to
spending more than enough money to
guarantee good quality healthcare to
guarantee good quality healthcare to
every person. All right.
every person All right
All right. What else do you got to do?
All right What else do you got to do
We need the Democratic party to be very
We need the Democratic party to be very
clear. The campaign system, current
clear The campaign system current
campaign finance system is broken. You
campaign finance system is broken You
got to get rid of Citizens United. You
got to get rid of Citizens United You
got to move to public funding of
got to move to public funding of
elections. Give everybody a chance to
elections Give everybody a chance to
participate in our democracy.
participate in our democracy
>> Right. All right. If if you were
>> Right All right If if you were
triaging
triaging
So, let's say you're triaging uh that
So let's say you're triaging uh that
idea because Citizens United, look,
idea because Citizens United look
those decisions about corporations being
those decisions about corporations being
people and money being speech make
people and money being speech make
things very difficult. But they do seem
things very difficult But they do seem
like generational plays to try and
like generational plays to try and
reverse things like that. This health
reverse things like that This health
care thing seems more immediate. Is that
care thing seems more immediate Is that
if you're triaging the aatient of
if you're triaging the aatient of
America, what's what's the first thing
America what's what's the first thing
you want to address?
you want to address
>> I happen, you know, I've always been
>> I happen you know I've always been
deeply concerned about healthcare as a
deeply concerned about healthcare as a
human right.
human right
>> Right.
>> Right
>> And this is something that is so doable.
>> And this is something that is so doable
We are the odd guy out as a country. I
We are the odd guy out as a country I
live 50 miles away from Canada. You
live 50 miles away from Canada You
spend a month in a hospital in Canada.
spend a month in a hospital in Canada
You know what the bill is when you come
You know what the bill is when you come
out? Zero. They spend half as much per
out Zero They spend half as much per
capita as we do on healthcare. They
capita as we do on healthcare They
guarantee healthcare to all of their
guarantee healthcare to all of their
people. This can be done. Absolutely
people This can be done Absolutely
doable. The other thing we could do,
doable The other thing we could do
young people today finding it extremely
young people today finding it extremely
hard to buy their own home. Cost of
hard to buy their own home Cost of
housing is off the charts. Why aren't we
housing is off the charts Why aren't we
building four or five million units of
building four or five million units of
lowincome and affordable housing? Well,
lowincome and affordable housing Well
to to be fair,
to to be fair
we are building one or two four or five
we are building one or two four or five
million dollar homes. So, I think that
million dollar homes So I think that
on average
on average
>> Yeah. Well, that's the point. That's a
>> Yeah Well that's the point That's a
fair point.
fair point
>> But let me ask you this question then
>> But let me ask you this question then
because this this is where I get in my
because this this is where I get in my
head about those prescriptions seem a a
head about those prescriptions seem a a
charismatic leader making a forceful
charismatic leader making a forceful
case for that would very much appeal to
case for that would very much appeal to
the American people. But what Democrats
the American people But what Democrats
find themselves in a place is we've shut
find themselves in a place is we've shut
down the government to protect subsidies
down the government to protect subsidies
for an insurance marketplace that
for an insurance marketplace that
funnels $800 billion a year into the
funnels 800 billion a year into the
pockets of all these insurance
pockets of all these insurance
companies. Have Democrats boxed
companies Have Democrats boxed
themselves into a corner fighting for a
themselves into a corner fighting for a
system that ultimately to get the thing
system that ultimately to get the thing
that you want that I think the American
that you want that I think the American
people want, they're going to have to
people want they're going to have to
abandon.
abandon
>> Yes. Look, here's where we are right
>> Yes Look here's where we are right
now, and I think it's not been made as
now and I think it's not been made as
clear as it should. If Trump gets away
clear as it should If Trump gets away
with what he wants, we are looking at 15
with what he wants we are looking at 15
million people losing their health
million people losing their health
insurance. And according to studies,
insurance And according to studies
John, 50,000 low-income and
John 50000 low-income and
working-class people dying every year
working-class people dying every year
unnecessarily
unnecessarily
>> based on lack of accessibility to
>> based on lack of accessibility to
health. Is that what you're low-inccome,
health Is that what you're low-inccome
you're working, you know how many
you're working you know how many
health, you have a chronic ill, you die.
health you have a chronic ill you die
That's what they're saying. On top of
That's what they're saying On top of
that, all over the country,
that all over the country
>> clear you you do die anyway. Just
>> clear you you do die anyway Just
>> you die anyway. But you don't have to
>> you die anyway But you don't have to
die. You don't have to die just because
die You don't have to die just because
you can't get to a doctor. That is
you can't get to a doctor That is
disgusting. Right. All right. And then
disgusting Right All right And then
on top of that, because of the cuts to
on top of that because of the cuts to
the ACA, uh you're looking at uh some 20
the ACA uh you're looking at uh some 20
plus million people seeing a doubling of
plus million people seeing a doubling of
their premiums at a time when they can't
their premiums at a time when they can't
even afford healthcare right now. Right.
even afford healthcare right now Right
>> All right. So your point is, is this a
>> All right So your point is is this a
good system? No. But we got
good system No But we got
>> this is a good system to defend
>> this is a good system to defend
political capital. But obviously,
political capital But obviously
obviously,
obviously
>> right,
>> right
>> it is a system designed to make huge
>> it is a system designed to make huge
profits for the insurance companies and
profits for the insurance companies and
the drug companies, right? Period. We
the drug companies right Period We
have got to move to a Medicare for all
have got to move to a Medicare for all
singlepayer program. Absolutely.
singlepayer program Absolutely
Will
Will
Is that something in in your caucus that
Is that something in in your caucus that
when when when that's raised, what are
when when when that's raised what are
the objections that come back to you?
the objections that come back to you
Now, I'm assuming that within even your
Now I'm assuming that within even your
caucus with the Democratic uh party that
caucus with the Democratic uh party that
you're considered an outlier in in those
you're considered an outlier in in those
kinds of things. Maybe more people are
kinds of things Maybe more people are
coming along there. What is their
coming along there What is their
reluctance?
reluctance
>> Well, the irony is in the caucus I am.
>> Well the irony is in the caucus I am
Outside of the caucus, in the real
Outside of the caucus in the real
world, I am not.
world I am not
>> That's the point.
>> That's the point
>> Yeah. All right. I think there is, oh,
>> Yeah All right I think there is oh
Bernie, it's too radical.
Bernie it's too radical
Oh, Bernie, you know, got money from
Oh Bernie you know got money from
insurance companies, drug companies, you
insurance companies drug companies you
know, all that stuff. We're getting all
know all that stuff We're getting all
kinds of opposition.
kinds of opposition
>> Will people ever say to you like,
>> Will people ever say to you like
Bernie, I'd love to do that, but you
Bernie I'd love to do that but you
don't understand. Etna's throwing me a
don't understand Etna's throwing me a
party. You can't you I can't. Well,
party You can't you I can't Well
these are non-verbal communications.
these are non-verbal communications
>> I mean,
>> I mean
>> little nudge nudge wink wink.
>> little nudge nudge wink wink
>> Yeah. I mean, look, these guys I last
>> Yeah I mean look these guys I last
count there were 1,500
count there were 1500
lobbyists from the pharmaceutical
lobbyists from the pharmaceutical
industry in Washington DC. Okay. That's
industry in Washington DC Okay That's
why you are paying by far the highest
why you are paying by far the highest
prices in the world for prescription
prices in the world for prescription
drugs. All right. But then you got other
drugs All right But then you got other
things. 70 years ago, I don't know how
things 70 years ago I don't know how
many people know this. P most or many
many people know this P most or many
public colleges and universities were
public colleges and universities were
tuition free in America.
tuition free in America
>> Sure. My parents went city college.
>> Sure My parents went city college
>> There you go. Great universities.
>> There you go Great universities
California highest quality education
California highest quality education
tuition free.
tuition free
>> And now workingclass families can't
>> And now workingclass families can't
afford to send their kids to college.
afford to send their kids to college
>> But again, this gets to the Democratic
>> But again this gets to the Democratic
solutions have never been to directly
solutions have never been to directly
provide. It's always been a subsidy to a
provide It's always been a subsidy to a
middleman. But what happens is when the
middleman But what happens is when the
government promises endless funds to
government promises endless funds to
insurance companies or private
insurance companies or private
universities without any cost controls
universities without any cost controls
and Trump seems to understand this
and Trump seems to understand this
prices rise far beyond the rate of
prices rise far beyond the rate of
inflation and we've seen it in tuition
inflation and we've seen it in tuition
and we've seen it in uh pharmaceutical
and we've seen it in uh pharmaceutical
and we've seen it in in health care. So,
and we've seen it in in health care So
my question is, will Democrats recognize
my question is will Democrats recognize
the poison pill that they've often
the poison pill that they've often
placed into well-intentioned policy?
placed into well-intentioned policy
>> Right. Right. What they end up doing is
>> Right Right What they end up doing is
coming up with very complicated
coming up with very complicated
proposals. You make $48,964,
proposals You make 48964
>> you will get this thing. You make a
>> you will get this thing You make a
dollar more, you're finished. And blah
dollar more you're finished And blah
blah blah blah. Look, we have got to
blah blah blah Look we have got to
make it simple. In the wealthiest
make it simple In the wealthiest
country in the history of the world,
country in the history of the world
should healthcare be a human right? Yes,
should healthcare be a human right Yes
it should be. Should we have the best
it should be Should we have the best
quality education in the world from
quality education in the world from
child care to graduate school? Yes, we
child care to graduate school Yes we
should.
should
>> Right. But these are these are
>> Right But these are these are
>> How do you get Let's get there.
>> How do you get Let's get there
>> All right. Then the question is All
>> All right Then the question is All
right. These are
right These are
>> I'm writing this down. Sanders.
>> I'm writing this down Sanders
>> All right. The Republicans are You're
>> All right The Republicans are You're
getting violent here. You know, you're
getting violent here You know you're
>> I get excited when you're around.
>> I get excited when you're around
>> All right.
>> All right
uh you know and what we need is a very
uh you know and what we need is a very
simple straightforward agenda which says
simple straightforward agenda which says
by the way and this is this is really a
by the way and this is this is really a
sticky point. You got to finally say to
sticky point You got to finally say to
the oligarchs who have never ever had it
the oligarchs who have never ever had it
so good. They're making money hand over
so good They're making money hand over
fist. All right. And you got to say to
fist All right And you got to say to
them, sorry guys, a billion dollars is
them sorry guys a billion dollars is
enough. You ain't going to have 200
enough You ain't going to have 200
billion or 300 billion. Try to survive
billion or 300 billion Try to survive
on be a billion. you're going to start
on be a billion you're going to start
paying your fair share of taxes.
paying your fair share of taxes
And this is like
And this is like
so when you see Donald Trump go to and
so when you see Donald Trump go to and
and only in this one area, but go to
and only in this one area but go to
them and say, "You're giving me 10% of
them and say You're giving me 10 of
your company if we're going to help you
your company if we're going to help you
out or we're going to do that, but
out or we're going to do that but
here's the thing, Fizer, you're not
here's the thing Fizer you're not
going to charge these people anymore."
going to charge these people anymore
Does that change the calculus now for
Does that change the calculus now for
Democrats to govern with more balls?
Democrats to govern with more balls
>> I think it does. I think it does. I
>> I think it does I think it does I
mean, they've seen a boldness on the
mean they've seen a boldness on the
part of Trump using his power in a way
part of Trump using his power in a way
that we have never seen before. So, I
that we have never seen before So I
hope it awakens Democrats.
hope it awakens Democrats
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah
>> To understand.
>> To understand
>> You want Luke Skywalker to look at Darth
>> You want Luke Skywalker to look at Darth
and go, I could do that.
and go I could do that
I could just nicer.
I could just nicer
nicer without the people in the masks.
nicer without the people in the masks
But the revolution, the political
But the revolution the political
revolution that we need also means an
revolution that we need also means an
involvement. And this is what was so
involvement And this is what was so
exciting about the No Kings Day at 7
exciting about the No Kings Day at 7
million people coming out. We need all
million people coming out We need all
of you
of you
>> to be involved in this process. It's got
>> to be involved in this process It's got
to be a bottom on up revolution, not a
to be a bottom on up revolution not a
top down.
top down
>> No, it it it it makes sense. it. I
>> No it it it it makes sense it I
wonder if we've lost the purpose in the
wonder if we've lost the purpose in the
sense of, you know, of viewing
sense of you know of viewing
government as a bull work. You know,
government as a bull work You know
when the founders design a system and
when the founders design a system and
they talk about checks and balances and
they talk about checks and balances and
congressional checks and judicial and
congressional checks and judicial and
executive and the balance all there, I
executive and the balance all there I
don't know that they factored in
don't know that they factored in
corporate power and I don't know that
corporate power and I don't know that
there's an entity large enough or with
there's an entity large enough or with
enough leverage
enough leverage
>> to be a counterweight to that type of
>> to be a counterweight to that type of
corporate power.
corporate power
>> You're raising a very important issue.
>> You're raising a very important issue
>> All right.
>> All right
I knew I'd get to it at some point.
I knew I'd get to it at some point
>> Finally. I've been waiting, John. You
>> Finally I've been waiting John You
finally said something relevant here.
finally said something relevant here
>> Yes.
>> Yes
>> Uh, look, I know people say, "Oh, we
>> Uh look I know people say Oh we
don't want the government to regulate,
don't want the government to regulate
you know, corporate." The truth of the
you know corporate The truth of the
matter is it's quite the opposite right
matter is it's quite the opposite right
now. It is the corporate world. It is
now It is the corporate world It is
the oligarchs who are regulating the
the oligarchs who are regulating the
government. They have far more power,
government They have far more power
>> right? And we have got to create a
>> right And we have got to create a
political movement, a grassroots
political movement a grassroots
movement which takes control of the
movement which takes control of the
future of this country. Let me give you
future of this country Let me give you
one example. Right now we are in the
one example Right now we are in the
midst as everybody knows of these the
midst as everybody knows of these the
Musks of the world and Bezos and all
Musks of the world and Bezos and all
these guys putting hundreds of billions
these guys putting hundreds of billions
of dollars into AI and robotics. Right?
of dollars into AI and robotics Right
>> This is going to transform our world.
>> This is going to transform our world
It's going to transform our economy. In
It's going to transform our economy In
my view, in the view of a number of
my view in the view of a number of
economists, it means millions and
economists it means millions and
millions of workers are going to be
millions of workers are going to be
displaced from their jobs.
displaced from their jobs
>> Who is engaging in that discussion to
>> Who is engaging in that discussion to
say, "Hey, Mr. Musk, you can't make the
say Hey Mr Musk you can't make the
decision for the future of humanity. We
decision for the future of humanity We
are going to make the future." And that
are going to make the future And that
is if AI works, it's going to work for
is if AI works it's going to work for
working people, not just billionaires.
working people not just billionaires
>> I'll go you one further.
>> I'll go you one further
>> Why are you always going me one further?
>> Why are you always going me one further
I'm not round.
I'm not round
>> I'll go you one further with this. Let's
>> I'll go you one further with this Let's
let's get really radical. You know,
let's get really radical You know
these AI uh data farms are going to need
these AI uh data farms are going to need
more and more electricity. Absolutely.
more and more electricity Absolutely
And these uh uh uh oligarchs or
And these uh uh uh oligarchs or
billionaire or the people that control
billionaire or the people that control
that are trying to cut deals
that are trying to cut deals
>> to get cheaper electricity for
>> to get cheaper electricity for
themselves even though that's going to
themselves even though that's going to
raise prices for the rest of us.
raise prices for the rest of us
>> Absolutely. And it's being they're being
>> Absolutely And it's being they're being
resisted all over the country. It's it's
resisted all over the country It's it's
electricity. It's water. Scarce water is
electricity It's water Scarce water is
going to be used.
going to be used
>> I like both of those.
>> I like both of those
>> All right. But the bottom line is
>> All right But the bottom line is
these technologies are going to
these technologies are going to
transform the world. We have got to make
transform the world We have got to make
sure that they work for working people,
sure that they work for working people
not just enrich the people on top. What
not just enrich the people on top What
does that mean? Well, among other
does that mean Well among other
things, if we increase worker
things if we increase worker
productivity, we can lower the work week
productivity we can lower the work week
from 40 hours a week to at least 32
from 40 hours a week to at least 32
hours a week. All right? But we have in
hours a week All right But we have in
many ways, you know, if if you look at
many ways you know if if you look at
productivity over time, productivity for
productivity over time productivity for
the American worker has shot through the
the American worker has shot through the
roof. American workers are unbelievably
roof American workers are unbelievably
productive. That's my point. But wages
productive That's my point But wages
have not.
have not
>> That is the profound point. Over the
>> That is the profound point Over the
last 52 years, with all of the increase
last 52 years with all of the increase
in worker productivity and technology,
in worker productivity and technology
the average American worker, blue collar
the average American worker blue collar
work, earning less today than he did
work earning less today than he did
then. That's insane. Why are you able to
then That's insane Why are you able to
make these cases so easily and talk like
make these cases so easily and talk like
a normal human being and and these other
a normal human being and and these other
I mean that's part of the problem in the
I mean that's part of the problem in the
Democratic party sometimes you listen to
Democratic party sometimes you listen to
them and you just you can almost see the
them and you just you can almost see the
consultant behind their eye going don't
consultant behind their eye going don't
frame it like that talk like a person
frame it like that talk like a person
you know I I think sadly it gets back to
you know I I think sadly it gets back to
money again you know if you don't want
money again you know if you don't want
to say things that antagonize your
to say things that antagonize your
campaign donors
campaign donors
Then you have to wiggle them.
Then you have to wiggle them
>> Trust me, the United States government
>> Trust me the United States government
is always going to be a trough. It It's
is always going to be a trough It It's
just a question of people are always
just a question of people are always
going to make corporations are always
going to make corporations are always
going to be able to make a huge profit
going to be able to make a huge profit
off of the contracts that come from the
off of the contracts that come from the
American government. The question is,
American government The question is
can we deliver those contracts with less
can we deliver those contracts with less
corruption? You know, everybody talks
corruption You know everybody talks
about waste, fraud, and abuse as though
about waste fraud and abuse as though
that's only done from people down the
that's only done from people down the
chain, people that get, you know, food
chain people that get you know food
stamps and uh all those things. They
stamps and uh all those things They
don't even look at the real corruption
don't even look at the real corruption
at the contractor level, at the all the
at the contractor level at the all the
subsidy level.
subsidy level
>> John, the Pentagon, I voted against
>> John the Pentagon I voted against
this, but Congress is going to pass a
this but Congress is going to pass a
trillion dollar
trillion dollar
>> trillion for the military.
>> trillion for the military
>> The Pentagon
>> The Pentagon
>> never passed an audit.
>> never passed an audit
>> Exactly. They have the only government
>> Exactly They have the only government
agent, major government agency not to
agent major government agency not to
pass an audit. No one denies that there
pass an audit No one denies that there
is massive way. They don't even know
is massive way They don't even know
what they own. All right. And they're
what they own All right And they're
paying the, you know, the the the
paying the you know the the the
salaries of the people of Loheed Martin
salaries of the people of Loheed Martin
and all this other stuff off the charts.
and all this other stuff off the charts
So your point is well taken and uh we
So your point is well taken and uh we
got to take a look at at the incredible
got to take a look at at the incredible
greed. You know these people on top are
greed You know these people on top are
very religious people. Do you know that?
very religious people Do you know that
>> Oh very religious people their religion
>> Oh very religious people their religion
is greed.
is greed
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah
>> They worship at the altar of money
>> They worship at the altar of money
leverage. They got to use it.
leverage They got to use it
>> Godamn right.
>> Godamn right
>> So so so let's talk about this in in
>> So so so let's talk about this in in
conclusion. Look, you've been doing this
conclusion Look you've been doing this
a long time.
a long time
>> Couple of years
>> Couple of years
>> is there. A couple of years now.
>> is there A couple of years now
I want to know in your mind, you've been
I want to know in your mind you've been
in the rooms with these folks, you've
in the rooms with these folks you've
been in the weeds with these folks. What
been in the weeds with these folks What
is your appraisal of their willingness
is your appraisal of their willingness
to recognize this moment, to recognize
to recognize this moment to recognize
the potential energy and thirst that
the potential energy and thirst that
exists out in this country for true
exists out in this country for true
leadership and simple common sense that
leadership and simple common sense that
that reflects a government that reflects
that reflects a government that reflects
the needs of its people? What is your
the needs of its people What is your
sense of
sense of
>> I have been in the room the door is
>> I have been in the room the door is
locked and you know there are some very
locked and you know there are some very
very serious discussions about what we
very serious discussions about what we
have to do to prevent this country
have to do to prevent this country
becoming an authoritarian society but
becoming an authoritarian society but
John the answer is not just within the
John the answer is not just within the
room of the people currently elected
room of the people currently elected
what we are seeing all over this country
what we are seeing all over this country
right now are great young people like
right now are great young people like
Mr. Mandani right here in the city of
Mr Mandani right here in the city of
New York. All right. And it's not just
New York All right And it's not just
him. You're beginning to see good
him You're beginning to see good
candidates who have the guts to say, "I
candidates who have the guts to say I
am going to take on the oligarchs. I am
am going to take on the oligarchs I am
going to stand with the working class."
going to stand with the working class
That is what we have got to develop in
That is what we have got to develop in
this country.
this country
>> Bernie Sanders, the book is fighting.
>> Bernie Sanders the book is fighting
They can't thank you enough. Bernie
They can't thank you enough Bernie
Sanders, everybody.
Sanders everybody
- Pause

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