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I wanted to start by asking you uh how
I
wanted
to
start
by
asking
you
uh
how
would you define the Austrian school of
would
you
define
the
Austrian
school
of
football?
football
>> Austria was always famous for its
>>
Austria
was
always
famous
for
its
technical football not so physical and
technical
football
not
so
physical
and
in former times but of course it changed
in
former
times
but
of
course
it
changed
in the last years because athleticism is
in
the
last
years
because
athleticism
is
so important in in every sport and
so
important
in
in
every
sport
and
especially in in football and of course
especially
in
in
football
and
of
course
but uh especially in the youth as
but
uh
especially
in
the
youth
as
children you should develop your
children
you
should
develop
your
technical skills. Yeah, that's we always
technical
skills
Yeah
that's
we
always
we call it the the golden age of
we
call
it
the
the
golden
age
of
learning. It's of course it's a little
learning
It's
of
course
it's
a
little
bit affected let's say by Red Bull
bit
affected
let's
say
by
Red
Bull
Salzburg was in the last 10 years the
Salzburg
was
in
the
last
10
years
the
most successful team with Ralf Rangnick
most
successful
team
with
Ralf
Rangnick
arriving and and Roger Schmidt as a
arriving
and
and
Roger
Schmidt
as
a
manager and then it was more about
manager
and
then
it
was
more
about
pressing and then but I always let's say
pressing
and
then
but
I
always
let's
say
I want to to divide the one is is the
I
want
to
to
divide
the
one
is
is
the
development. Yeah. And in development
development
Yeah
And
in
development
it's more about technique and individual
it's
more
about
technique
and
individual
development. And of course then in
development
And
of
course
then
in
adults football it's it's about
adults
football
it's
it's
about
performance. Yeah. because you you need
performance
Yeah
because
you
you
need
to win games, but it helps when you have
to
win
games
but
it
helps
when
you
have
good technical players, when you have
good
technical
players
when
you
have
players who understand the game.
players
who
understand
the
game
>> Going then just across the board to
>>
Going
then
just
across
the
board
to
Germany. Obviously, you worked in in
Germany
Obviously
you
worked
in
in
both countries and and talking about uh
both
countries
and
and
talking
about
uh
Dortmund uh that that amazing season
Dortmund
uh
that
that
amazing
season
they had in 112. What was it about the
they
had
in
112
What
was
it
about
the
pressing that worked well? Because it
pressing
that
worked
well
Because
it
was the peak of their pressing that
was
the
peak
of
their
pressing
that
season, wasn't it? Sometimes you get an
season
wasn't
it
Sometimes
you
get
an
influence, you don't know why, but it
influence
you
don't
know
why
but
it
was for me the end of my career and and
was
for
me
the
end
of
my
career
and
and
let's say looking for my second career
let's
say
looking
for
my
second
career
after retiring. Yes, Dorton was
after
retiring
Yes
Dorton
was
impressive because they had didn't have
impressive
because
they
had
didn't
have
the it looked like the best individual
the
it
looked
like
the
best
individual
players but the best team and then it's
players
but
the
best
team
and
then
it's
always okay why uh does this work so
always
okay
why
uh
does
this
work
so
great and I think yeah Jurgen club was
great
and
I
think
yeah
Jurgen
club
was
one of the the first ones and and he was
one
of
the
the
first
ones
and
and
he
was
always talking about counter press and
always
talking
about
counter
press
and
yes in Austria we were talking about
yes
in
Austria
we
were
talking
about
counter press and I was in my coaching
counter
press
and
I
was
in
my
coaching
program at that time after retiring then
program
at
that
time
after
retiring
then
they asked me to write the dissertation
they
asked
me
to
write
the
dissertation
how I see football how I how I want to
how
I
see
football
how
I
how
I
want
to
play and I remember and I wrote yeah I
play
and
I
remember
and
I
wrote
yeah
I
would like to play with like counter
would
like
to
play
with
like
counter
press like like Barussia Dortmund at
press
like
like
Barussia
Dortmund
at
that times but I also I have no idea how
that
times
but
I
also
I
have
no
idea
how
to train it because it was new in
to
train
it
because
it
was
new
in
Austria. We didn't we never talked about
Austria
We
didn't
we
never
talked
about
it. And so fortunately for me then um I
it
And
so
fortunately
for
me
then
um
I
became assistant coach of Roger Smith
became
assistant
coach
of
Roger
Smith
and Ralph Rangnick and there I
and
Ralph
Rangnick
and
there
I
learned the tools how you can train it
learned
the
tools
how
you
can
train
it
because we can't show them the players
because
we
can't
show
them
the
players
you can't just talk about it. You have
you
can't
just
talk
about
it
You
have
to train it and it's it's a daily
to
train
it
and
it's
it's
a
daily
exercise daily progress and and so yes
exercise
daily
progress
and
and
so
yes
this is how I started my my career as a
this
is
how
I
started
my
my
career
as
a
manager. So they played a 4231, but
manager
So
they
played
a
4231
but
without the ball they played like a 4-4-2
without
the
ball
they
played
like
a
4-4-2
and I remember club saying that it was
and
I
remember
club
saying
that
it
was
because it made the the running lines
because
it
made
the
the
running
lines
easier. Could could you explain that?
easier
Could
could
you
explain
that
>> The easiest system to press for me is
>>
The
easiest
system
to
press
for
me
is
4-4-2. It's pretty clear and I think you
4-4-2
It's
pretty
clear
and
I
think
you
need at least four players uh to press
need
at
least
four
players
uh
to
press
high. Let's say that's a little bit the
high
Let's
say
that's
a
little
bit
the
difference compared to our 3-4-3 we are
difference
compared
to
our
3-4-3
we
are
playing now. That's also why we play
playing
now
That's
also
why
we
play
more from a midfield block, but when
more
from
a
midfield
block
but
when
we press high, we usually press in a 442
we
press
high
we
usually
press
in
a
442
and how we do it. We just put one wing-back
and
how
we
do
it
We
just
put
one
wing-back
back high, we shift
back
high
we
shift
and we have a 442. So it's it's not so
and
we
have
a
442
So
it's
it's
not
so
difficult. Yeah. And as you see, it's
difficult
Yeah
And
as
you
see
it's
not a lot to do. let's say 10 yards by a
not
a
lot
to
do
let's
say
10
yards
by
a
few players and everybody has to know
few
players
and
everybody
has
to
know
what to do and when to do and it's just
what
to
do
and
when
to
do
and
it's
just
to get pressure in the buildup of the
to
get
pressure
in
the
buildup
of
the
opposition and on the other side of
opposition
and
on
the
other
side
of
course when you tuck and also Dortmund at
course
when
you
tuck
and
also
Dortmund
at
the time they had very attacking
the
time
they
had
very
attacking
fullbacks. Yeah.
fullbacks
Yeah
>> Yeah. So that means you have two
>>
Yeah
So
that
means
you
have
two
strikers. Yeah. Or a 10 making runs.
strikers
Yeah
Or
a
10
making
runs
Yeah. So when let's say this player is
Yeah
So
when
let's
say
this
player
is
marked at that time most of the teams
marked
at
that
time
most
of
the
teams
play the back four. Yeah. And then
play
the
back
four
Yeah
And
then
also you when he came into midfield he
also
you
when
he
came
into
midfield
he
had to make the runs. Yeah. So always to
had
to
make
the
runs
Yeah
So
always
to
threaten the space behind the defensive
threaten
the
space
behind
the
defensive
line and of course then when you have
line
and
of
course
then
when
you
have
the winger and they didn't always play
the
winger
and
they
didn't
always
play
with wide wingers also with let's say in
with
wide
wingers
also
with
let's
say
in
the half space now it's more than the
the
half
space
now
it's
more
than
the
half space runs and then they also had
half
space
runs
and
then
they
also
had
the attacking fullback they had the
the
attacking
fullback
they
had
the
player here they had they had the
player
here
they
had
they
had
the
striker they had the 10 who made the run
striker
they
had
the
10
who
made
the
run
they had the opposite winger so they had
they
had
the
opposite
winger
so
they
had
many players in the box and I think
many
players
in
the
box
and
I
think
usually these players were responsible
usually
these
players
were
responsible
the two sixes usually the far fullback
the
two
sixes
usually
the
far
fullback
so when you're maybe one goal down you
so
when
you're
maybe
one
goal
down
you
need to score you can also send him in
need
to
score
you
can
also
send
him
in
the. And of course the two center backs
the
And
of
course
the
two
center
backs
and these players who are responsible
and
these
players
who
are
responsible
for the shape behind the ball.
for
the
shape
behind
the
ball
>> Okay.
>>
Okay
>> And that's why I always say for me
>>
And
that's
why
I
always
say
for
me
you see it's now we started in the 4-2-3-1
you
see
it's
now
we
started
in
the
4-2-3-1
and when I say we are blue in the 3-4-3
and
when
I
say
we
are
blue
in
the
3-4-3
system. Yeah.
system
Yeah
>> So when we attack we also have the
>>
So
when
we
attack
we
also
have
the
striker with our two 10s. Yeah. We have
striker
with
our
two
10s
Yeah
We
have
the wing backs high.
the
wing
backs
high
>> We have the two sixes. And see, that's
>>
We
have
the
two
sixes
And
see
that's
how we start. So and then when we attack
how
we
start
So
and
then
when
we
attack
from the right side with the wing back
from
the
right
side
with
the
wing
back
it's clear we want the striker in the
it's
clear
we
want
the
striker
in
the
box. to run the 10 in the box. So, we
box
to
run
the
10
in
the
box
So
we
have the near 10 in the box. We
have
the
near
10
in
the
box
We
have the far wing back. We have the two
have
the
far
wing
back
We
have
the
two
sixes and the back three. So, see it's
sixes
and
the
back
three
So
see
it's
the same. And when you watch us, if the
the
same
And
when
you
watch
us
if
the
opposition has one striker who stays up
opposition
has
one
striker
who
stays
up
high, we ask one of our back three to
high
we
ask
one
of
our
back
three
to
step up high
step
up
high
>> and then we have the same shape as
>>
and
then
we
have
the
same
shape
as
here.
here
>> So, for me, the system is not really
>>
So
for
me
the
system
is
not
really
relevant. It's more how you want your
relevant
It's
more
how
you
want
your
players to to behave, how you want to
players
to
to
behave
how
you
want
to
attack the box, how you want behave
attack
the
box
how
you
want
behave
behind the ball. Yeah. To organize the
behind
the
ball
Yeah
To
organize
the
rest defense. So for us it's how we
rest
defense
So
for
us
it's
how
we
are playing. We always want to have a
are
playing
We
always
want
to
have
a
plus one in the last line. A few are
plus
one
in
the
last
line
A
few
are
playing man to man. Yeah. So we always
playing
man
to
man
Yeah
So
we
always
want to have this
want
to
have
this
>> and then so my we're always telling the
>>
and
then
so
my
we're
always
telling
the
players we have to control this area
players
we
have
to
control
this
area
>> to not get a problem in this area. You
>>
to
not
get
a
problem
in
this
area
You
organize your counter press during the
organize
your
counter
press
during
the
time you are attacking but you have to
time
you
are
attacking
but
you
have
to
organize it behind the ball and then
organize
it
behind
the
ball
and
then
when you lose it of course then it means
when
you
lose
it
of
course
then
it
means
from all the players to make pressure
from
all
the
players
to
make
pressure
and the far, the far side of course to
and
the
far
the
far
side
of
course
to
recover.
recover
>> You just mentioned that you liked the
>>
You
just
mentioned
that
you
liked
the
4-4-2 and I know a lot of people here
4-4-2
and
I
know
a
lot
of
people
here
obviously relate you with with the back
obviously
relate
you
with
with
the
back
three with the three five uh two or
three
with
the
three
five
uh
two
or
3-4-3 actually. Um, do you think
3-4-3
actually
Um
do
you
think
people sometimes they they get too hung
people
sometimes
they
they
get
too
hung
up on the on the initial shape? Like you
up
on
the
on
the
initial
shape
Like
you
just said, I I really like a 442. It's
just
said
I
I
really
like
a
442
It's
it's all very fluid in the end.
it's
all
very
fluid
in
the
end
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's too much talk
>>
Exactly
Yeah
Yeah
It's
too
much
talk
about the system. But I also I think it
about
the
system
But
I
also
I
think
it
should be like this that let's say we
should
be
like
this
that
let's
say
we
coaches that we are let's say more
coaches
that
we
are
let's
say
more
pundits than the the the fan who watches
pundits
than
the
the
the
fan
who
watches
the game and then for him or for them it
the
game
and
then
for
him
or
for
them
it
should be fine uh talking about the
should
be
fine
uh
talking
about
the
system but again I show it very let's
system
but
again
I
show
it
very
let's
say very easily, let's say that just the
say
very
easily
let's
say
that
just
the
patterns we have. So this is our
patterns
we
have
So
this
is
our
starting. So, and then sometimes okay
starting
So
and
then
sometimes
okay
when he is high and he passes right he
when
he
is
high
and
he
passes
right
he
jumps he moves he moves he moves. So
jumps
he
moves
he
moves
he
moves
So
what system we have 4-4-2.
what
system
we
have
4-4-2
>> Yeah. So then he comes here. So is more
>>
Yeah
So
then
he
comes
here
So
is
more
or less the same. Yeah. So the other
or
less
the
same
Yeah
So
the
other
pattern what we have and we see
pattern
what
we
have
and
we
see
especially when we press, it's very
especially
when
we
press
it's
very
often it it becomes a for if he is wide
often
it
it
becomes
a
for
if
he
is
wide
wider. Yeah. With them high and this and
wider
Yeah
With
them
high
and
this
and
then their 10 is somewhere here in
then
their
10
is
somewhere
here
in
between. We ask our center-back to step
between
We
ask
our
center-back
to
step
into midfield. So now he has to drop.
into
midfield
So
now
he
has
to
drop
It's a 4-2-3-1. Yeah. So um I could press
It's
a
4-2-3-1
Yeah
So
um
I
could
press
stop during a game and you will
stop
during
a
game
and
you
will
find I think more 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 chips than
find
I
think
more
4-4-2
or
4-2-3-1
chips
than
in the 3-4-3 or 5-4-1.
in
the
3-4-3
or
5-4-1
>> You also mentioned Pep's Barcelona as one
>>
You
also
mentioned
Pep's
Barcelona
as
one
of your influence. So many managers
of
your
influence
So
many
managers
mentioned this, but we don't necessarily
mentioned
this
but
we
don't
necessarily
relate you with possession based
relate
you
with
possession
based
football. What What was it about that
football
What
What
was
it
about
that
team? Was it Was it because everything
team
Was
it
Was
it
because
everything
was really through the middle? They were
was
really
through
the
middle
They
were
breaking lines with that midfield?
breaking
lines
with
that
midfield
>> Yes. First of all, I think you can't
>>
Yes
First
of
all
I
think
you
can't
copy the Barcelona team with Busketss,
copy
the
Barcelona
team
with
Busketss
Iniesta, and Javi in midfield. Maybe one
Iniesta
and
Javi
in
midfield
Maybe
one
of the best football players uh in the
of
the
best
football
players
uh
in
the
last 20 years. But what I learned
last
20
years
But
what
I
learned
especially from from me in the they
especially
from
from
me
in
the
they
play the 4-3-3
play
the
4-3-3
with high-end right wingers and of course
with
high-end
right
wingers
and
of
course
then Messi was the false nine the first
then
Messi
was
the
false
nine
the
first
time. Yeah. Always having triangles.
time
Yeah
Always
having
triangles
Yeah.
Yeah
>> Mhm.
>>
Mhm
>> Here let's see here a diamond shape
>>
Here
let's
see
here
a
diamond
shape
diagonal and vertical play. Not really
diagonal
and
vertical
play
Not
really
square passes. Yeah. Here the same.
square
passes
Yeah
Here
the
same
Yeah. With the eights, you have
Yeah
With
the
eights
you
have
triangle here. Yeah, you have a diamond
triangle
here
Yeah
you
have
a
diamond
shape here. Yeah, you have a diamond
shape
here
Yeah
you
have
a
diamond
shape here. You have a triangle here.
shape
here
You
have
a
triangle
here
And when he's high, you have a triangle
And
when
he's
high
you
have
a
triangle
here. Always triangles for diagonal and
here
Always
triangles
for
diagonal
and
vertical play. And that's what I could
vertical
play
And
that's
what
I
could
see many many advantages. Yeah. So,
see
many
many
advantages
Yeah
So
first of all, when you pass diagonally,
first
of
all
when
you
pass
diagonally
he can have an open body shape. So, when
he
can
have
an
open
body
shape
So
when
you just pass let's say straight balls,
you
just
pass
let's
say
straight
balls
usually he the body shape is closed.
usually
he
the
body
shape
is
closed
Exactly. Then that means it's easier to
Exactly
Then
that
means
it's
easier
to
get pressure from behind there. Whereas
get
pressure
from
behind
there
Whereas
here, you have an open body shape. You
here
you
have
an
open
body
shape
You
see him parapher view and then you can
see
him
parapher
view
and
then
you
can
solve it with one touch and I think ex
solve
it
with
one
touch
and
I
think
ex
especially in La Masia it was just one
especially
in
La
Masia
it
was
just
one
touch football here. Yeah. Because they
touch
football
here
Yeah
Because
they
they saw everything that happens on the
they
saw
everything
that
happens
on
the
pitch? I think what we are doing then is
pitch
I
think
what
we
are
doing
then
is
is the same with with our midfielders.
is
the
same
with
with
our
midfielders
Yeah. We have it very often very often.
Yeah
We
have
it
very
often
very
often
Yeah. The situation: we pass here and
Yeah
The
situation:
we
pass
here
and
then they pass with one touch to the
then
they
pass
with
one
touch
to
the
ten. Yeah. So diagonal open body shape
ten
Yeah
So
diagonal
open
body
shape
whereas the more we come into attack the
whereas
the
more
we
come
into
attack
the
more vertical we want to play.
more
vertical
we
want
to
play
>> Yeah. You mentioned the inverted, uh
>>
Yeah
You
mentioned
the
inverted
uh
fullbacks and you you like to open the
fullbacks
and
you
you
like
to
open
the
the pitch a lot with with your
the
pitch
a
lot
with
with
your
fullbacks. So what are the
fullbacks
So
what
are
the
advantages to having this inverted
advantages
to
having
this
inverted
fullbacks and what are the advantages of
fullbacks
and
what
are
the
advantages
of
just opening the pitch?
just
opening
the
pitch
>> No, I think sometimes when we play
>>
No
I
think
sometimes
when
we
play
a very, very deep block, we send him high
a
very
very
deep
block
we
send
him
high
and you play. This is what Pep is doing
and
you
play
This
is
what
Pep
is
doing
very often. Yeah. With three and one or
very
often
Yeah
With
three
and
one
or
two and two. That's how we played in the
two
and
two
That's
how
we
played
in
the
FA Cup final. It was two and two, same
FA
Cup
final
It
was
two
and
two
same
setup, and then being very fluid.
setup
and
then
being
very
fluid
Sometimes he drops, sometimes he rolls
Sometimes
he
drops
sometimes
he
rolls
out. Then it's very, very similar. You
out
Then
it's
very
very
similar
You
need your best football players in the
need
your
best
football
players
in
the
tight areas.
tight
areas
>> Of course, here.
>>
Of
course
here
>> And this is what worked so well in the
>>
And
this
is
what
worked
so
well
in
the
FA Cup final. You think?
FA
Cup
final
You
think
>> No, it worked. We controlled it.
>>
No
it
worked
We
controlled
it
>> Yes. Yes. And our adjustment in the FA
>>
Yes
Yes
And
our
adjustment
in
the
FA
Cup final was: this is their trap.
Cup
final
was:
this
is
their
trap
They want our sixes to jump but find the
They
want
our
sixes
to
jump
but
find
the
space behind. We told our sixes to be
space
behind
We
told
our
sixes
to
be
patient and stay, and we said okay you
patient
and
stay
and
we
said
okay
you
front three, you have to control these
front
three
you
have
to
control
these
four players. We don't give them the space, so
four
players
We
don't
give
them
the
space
so
we always try to keep this 5-4 here
we
always
try
to
keep
this
5-4
here
and then what happens, then what
and
then
what
happens
then
what
what, um, of course what you have to
what
um
of
course
what
you
have
to
control. So we didn't give them the
control
So
we
didn't
give
them
the
pocket, then they go wide, and of
pocket
then
they
go
wide
and
of
course then they have Do that came and
course
then
they
have
Do
that
came
and
Sinho, and then it was okay, hard work for
Sinho
and
then
it
was
okay
hard
work
for
our tens, you always have to double up
our
tens
you
always
have
to
double
up
and what we know we can do well
and
what
we
know
we
can
do
well
with our center-backs we can defend the
with
our
center-backs
we
can
defend
the
box well, and defend the cross as
box
well
and
defend
the
cross
as
well. We couldn't avoid anything. So if
well
We
couldn't
avoid
anything
So
if
you want to control the pocket, we have
you
want
to
control
the
pocket
we
have
to give them the width, and we decided to
to
give
them
the
width
and
we
decided
to
give them the width. The one-v-one
give
them
the
width
The
one-v-one
player, they had to double up, and if the
player
they
had
to
double
up
and
if
the
cross, we have to defend the boxes. I
cross
we
have
to
defend
the
boxes
I
think they had 25 crosses or something
think
they
had
25
crosses
or
something
like this.
like
this
>> Yeah,
>>
Yeah
>> They had one big chance to be fair with
>>
They
had
one
big
chance
to
be
fair
with
HÃ¥land first half.
HÃ¥land
first
half
>> But everything else we did really did
>>
But
everything
else
we
did
really
did
really well. So this was the
really
well
So
this
was
the
adjustment. Everybody knows what to do.
adjustment
Everybody
knows
what
to
do
Having the confidence and the belief, uh
Having
the
confidence
and
the
belief
uh
that we really can win every single
that
we
really
can
win
every
single
game. So this is what happens, of course,
game
So
this
is
what
happens
of
course
on the pitch, on the training pitch
on
the
pitch
on
the
training
pitch
but that's also, um, I think creating a
but
that's
also
um
I
think
creating
a
winning environment where everybody
winning
environment
where
everybody
believes in it, and so that's at
believes
in
it
and
so
that's
at
least in my perspective, at least as
least
in
my
perspective
at
least
as
important as the tactical shape.
important
as
the
tactical
shape
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